To be worried about childcare reform Bill?

[NurseryNurse10]

I work in the nursery sector. Many of you know that it's proposed that the ratio will increase from 1/4 for two year olds to 1/5.
Aibu to say this will be the final nail in the coffin for nurseries and that it also doesn't solve the qualified staffing issue ? Many are unaware that legally you have to have a level 3 and a level 2 in EACH room. Nurseries are having massive issues recruiting qualified staff so this is surely going to make the issue even worse ?

Looks like the "free" places will extent to 1 and 2 year olds. That's more children that nurseries will be expected to make a loss on.

Bad for nurseries.

Yes, can't see how that is do-able. So nursery provision will be free for most parents for babies in that case? Seeing as many won't go over 30 hours. If they are also planning on the ratio relaxation as well then surely this isn't workable

But the ‘free’ hours are not free at most private day nurseries are they. Parents top up the gap between the funding per hour provided by the government and what it actually costs (under the cover of it being for consumables.. consumables which add up to exactly the deficit) And then full price over the 30 hours a week/38 weeks per year.

parents would benefit from this being extended to 1 &2 years as well as 3& 4 years.

not sure it would be workable in those settings that play by the rules and 30 free hours really means free (typically the 9-3 no lunch provision type settings from what I can see).

something has to change but will believe it when I see it working.

Still doesn't resolve the staffing issue either and surely this means more nurseries will be running at a loss....

it all just falls down when the government are wilfully underfunding the sector. They’re going to be patting themselves on the back tomorrow if the ‘free’ hours are extended but it’s all just bull shit really isn’t it.

If they are able to extend free hours for 1 year olds then you question why they couldn't do it before. It will mean a loss for the nurseries also. Not only that but it may well encourage more kids in but they can't staff it so problem remains....

Will more nurseries do like ours do and charge the parents the deficit? We pay ~£30 a day for ‘funded’ days and £62 a day for unfounded days. I assume we’re stopping them making a loss. Maybe more will do the same.
The poor pay for nursery staff is unforgivable. Parents can’t put that right, they’re already paying more than is tolerable, but the government could.

I wrote this on another thread, but if the government would just make nurseries exempt from business rates and from having to pay VAT on goods and services, it would be a start. Such small things, but it would free up money to pay the staff a bit more.

Absolutely agree User. I don’t know the ins and outs of these things (business rates as such)- but assume they will go for the headline of ‘extended free childcare’ (now get back to work) instead. If the simply extended the current not fit for purpose set up or will really be the final mail for the sector won’t it. I’m sure they can’t let that happen though.. so I hope I’m wrong though, and the change the deliver is sustainable & can genuinely improve the current system.

Too late for us mind, with a 4 year old and a nearly 3 year old- we’ve just clung on through the worst of the expensive years (just!!) but hopefully better things are coming for the families behind us.

Clearly whoever is pulling these ratios from God knows where has never worked in a nursery or even with young children. I would walk without a doubt if this happens and get a job in a supermarket for more pay less stress.

They need to make their mind up if we are childcare or education. They can't increase the ratios then send ofsted in asking why we haven't taught them all to spell yet.

I would be astounded if anyone making the decisions on ratios has ever looked after four toddlers alone for ten minutes, never mind five for a day.

The way we pay nursery workers is despicable. The women at our nursery are incredible and work so hard. They would be financially rewarded for their skills, experience and effort.

The whole thing makes me so mad - a headline grabber that looks great, unless you know anything about the issue at all.

Well that's the final nail in the coffin for nurseries.
No mention of increased pay for staff and now expected to look after more kids on next to minimum wage. Goodbye nursery sector.

They can't dictate wages for nursery staff, but if they're upping financial support for settings by 30% is that not going to mean nurseries can at least pay staff a bit more?

YANBU.

My biggest concern is how much are the government going to pay the nurseries per child? At the moment, it's the subsidised hours that mean settings are closing everywhere. You can't run a childcare setting on peanuts.

The preschool my child is at depends on parents of under 3's paying £7/hr.

I'm up for saving money, but not at the expense of the whole childcare system. I hate the government, they just seem to never get it right. They always want something for nothing and it doesn't work. This is just a stupid, transparent attempt to win voters.

Unbelievable really
i run a preschool with the minimum wage going up by so much next month and other utilities this will see us go under. The only silver lining is it isn’t due to kick in until April next year

@Pastadanca I doubt it as it will crush nurseries enough with all the new funded places. My colleagues and I are just despairing of it all as we can see what's going to happen.

Increasing what the govt pay for funded places will not balance out the amount of funded places nurseries are expected to offer moving forwards.

Disappointed that Busy Bees as a chain have reported that they are happy about the new ratio increase. They certainly won't be once their staff all leave in their droves.

It's because childcare, whether by parents, families, or nursery staff, is undervalued and seen as women's work. The plan to make women work longer hours outside the home as well as inside the home by making other women look after their children under harder conditions is part of the consistent devaluing of caring work.

Ratios in Scotland are 1:3 for under 2s, 1:5 for 2-3s & 1:8 for 3-5s. This is for nurseries & is a bit higher than England I believe.
However swings other way when you compare childminding ratios in Scotland we are only allowed 3 pre- school children at any time & only 1 of these can be under 1yr. It is very difficult to get a variation to go over this - usually if for twins. We can also only have 6 children in total at any time - including school aged children (& our own are always included up to age of 16) In England childminders are able to have much larger numbers of school aged children & higher nos of pre schoolers, they can vary this themselves.
Personally I think Scotland is right here, I'm a cm & can't imagine having 4 or 5 2yr olds to look after!

This isn't going to happen until 2025 by current plans- so i.e. potentially not at all.

I understand why you are stressed out by it.

I think the reality is that many parents will not be able to access childcare as there won't be more spaces. And many providers will keep their ratios to what they feel is safe.

In many countries there are no national ratios, but I doubt this means you have massive ratios in places like Sweden and Germany?

The new ratios come into effect in September. Already one of the nurseries I work at has said they will go with the new ratio. Really disappointing and also surprised as didn't think they would put children's safety at risk like that knowing how stressed everyone is and the high level of kids who have special needs.

There was no doubt in my mind that Busy Bees would be the first. I've done supply in 4 of their nurseries. They are interesting.

Have you ever tried to supervise 5 children age 2? I can tell you what will happen less 1:1 attention, less supervision so more accidents, more children falling through the cracks because nursery staff don't have the time to notice.
Still think it's a good solution?