How much do you think junior doctors should be paid per hour

[Jill688]

you are being unreasonable - they should be paid £14/hr

you are not being unreasonable - they should be paid more

Of my cohort of 200. I would say around 50 have left medicine altogether. For academia, to do Botox, work in consulting. Another 70 or so have gone to Australia/New Zealand/Canada/US. I suspect more will go abroad, possibly including myself. My local GP practice is meant to have 10 GPs to function fully staffed. 6 have left in the past 18 months leaving 4. 2 went to Australia, 1 to Canada, 2 retired and 1 is no longer working. They cannot recruit and many patients now have to go to a and e

Just looked on BMA website which indicates doctor vacancies are ever so slightly down compared to 2018 as is the percentage vacancy rate. Maybe I've misunderstood.

Why? Doctors from abroad do not want to come and stay here. My local Neonatal unit used to be almost entirely staffed by doctors from India. All of them have left. For Australia or the US.

Exactly. This is what people don’t seem to get. They won’t have any left!!

@WaitingForEgg

Our trust is desperate to recruit from over seas

Theyre not getting anywhere

It also raises lots of ethical issues

I mean this is laughable. God knows where they get their stats

Again, I'm looking at sources like the BMA but can't find this. I totally accept that this is your lived experience but I would be fascinated to see the actual data on it. I am definitely a NHS and doctor ally! I totally support an inflation proof payrise, I just think they should be focusing on conditions not 35% payrise.

"I think they are paid about right..."

Lol!

Next time you have a heart attack or stroke just pop along to Pret...they'll sort it for you along with a free coffee if you ask nicely.

They should get their students loan paid as long as they work on the Uk. And at least £35k

@newstart1234

Focusing on conditions in what way?

They can't get better conditions and more staff without better pay.

Im not sure why people can't grasp that

Surely better conditions and more staff is about investment into the NHS itself rather than just pay.

@CornishGem1975

Sure

But pay is definitely part of investing in the NHS

Just the ones that have already been mentioned, (parking, hours, exam fees, training areas, on site childcare maybe, hospital accomodation) I also like the 'pay their student loan for as long as they work in the uk' idea.

Yes! Pension is conveniently forgotten by people saying 14£/h is not enough or when comparing with the famous Pret worker…

@WaitingForEgg

I accepted your saying but looking at a number of selective school websites it is still the case that schools boasts about Oxbridge entrants and Medicine entrants. It appears medicine is still a desirable profession to aspire to (discuss?). Will there be a point where schools simply will not suggest medicine as aspirational career and are we teaching that point?

I think the worry from the public point of view is that medics are leaving for other well paid and less onerous careers yet have benefited from tax payer funded training with the expectation the trainee would stay in the NHS to treat the tax payer.

I find it easier to have more sympathy for nurses as the sideways career moved away from front line healthcare are as not as obvious or available so maybe the focus should be there.

@newstart1234

How do you think any of that will help the working conditions?

Not particularly salary related, but surely there needs to be a look at job titles???

Junior Doctor, Doctor, Senior, Consultant.

The problem with Junior Doctor is that the role is then seen as junior, with salaries to match.
Junior should only apply to the newly qualified. With a proper career and salary progression in place, there would be light at the end of the tunnel for the newly qualified.

Love the idea of their uni fees being paid off for as long as they remain in the NHS - nice one!

I had no idea the starting salary was so low. Surely about £25.00 at the minimum.Most Doctors enter the profession for altruistic reasons ,but they still have bills to pay.Last evening a young guy says after a frantic 11 hour shift ,he would like a takeaway or ready meal .Cant afford to. Bloody stupid WTF! They will be leaving in their droves at this rate .3 times salary and a shorter week in NZ!

It's a direct reply to the complaints about conditions I've heard from doctors and their representatives themselves. Ask them. I don't know. I think improving pay for carers would be better myself. It's a great job but not a salary you can live on. More carers, less people stuck in hospital, better for doctors :) its a win win win

They are paid more than enough. Perhaps there should be a limit on how many hours they can work both in a day and in a week. But I am sick of their whinging and misrepresenting of how much they earn, comparing their wage to that of Pret workers is just insulting.

Cool, I assume you'd be happy for a 'pret worker' to operate on your spinal chord after a car accident then or investigate your cancer symptoms 🙄

@newstart1234

I don't need to ask them. I was asking you.

Most carers work for private companies not the NHS.

They absolutely deserve much better pay.

Theyre unlikely to get it in the private sector

I think if we aree not careful then it becomes a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

The NHS is under immense financial strain as we age and become generally less healthy as a society. People talking about it being 'under resourced', ignore the fact that we are now spending in real terms 10x more on the NHS than we were in 1950. There isn't a bottomless pit of taxpayer money available (the burden of taxation in the UK is already extremely high and many families are struggling to cope) so my question is how much would be enough and where do we get the money from?

In this context, I have sympathy with junior doctors who are working very long hours with difficult working conditions for relatively low pay The answer isn't though to just pay them more. Sure, this might help the last part of the conundrum but it may well detract from the other problems they face as money is spent on wages instead on training more much needed doctors and pumping money into improving the facilities and other things that would aid working conditions.

If you had an endless supply of money of course you would tackle all three things, but we need to be realistic and not live in a fantasy world where we blame the mean Tories for not just giving junior doctors and everyone else striking lots of (very limited tax payer) money. Demand for places at medical schools is high and career progression can be lucrative in medicine. Consultants can earn well over £100k and can tout out their services in the private sector for even more money so I would be keen to know whether those who are desperate to write off the student loans of junior doctors think that this is fair when teachers and other vital professions don't have anything like this earning potential and get no such waivers.

Botw1 - I don't care. You win. However, doctor's will not get public sympathy if they go for 35%. If you don't like it then leave. Work privately or go abroad. There, I said it. I have actually worked 'abroad' aligned to healthcare and no, doctors pay is no better when taken in the round (ie. purchasing power). If WaitingForEgg is still around than I'd still love to know where the stats on doctors leaving are.

£100