How much do you think junior doctors should be paid per hour

[Jill688]

you are being unreasonable - they should be paid £14/hr

you are not being unreasonable - they should be paid more

@Tinner01

Maybe all those mn whose ohs avoid tax?

Government is funding the building of many new nuclear attack submarines and is wasting 10s of billions on HS2.

A better question is "How will the NHS function without (enough) Junior Doctors?"

The only thing I find confusing is that I have a family in law member on a very, very high salary as a part time GP. Not sure when the “jump” to that high salary happens. I’m sure he didn’t qualify that long ago but I could be wrong. However if I was a junior doctor and knew I would be getting this high salary in 4 years (for example) I’d say it’s worth sticking out a lower salary as a junior doctor. As before I don’t know the ins and outs of the profession ie when you move from junior to GP.

Doctors are high achievers from often quite financially stable middle class backgrounds

this is an important point, it is becoming increasingly for difficult for people from low income backgrounds to become doctors . There has been some research that shows that of it is increasingly necessary to have parental financial support just to get through the last two years of medical school let alone the foundation years.

many of my friends are still financially supporting their young doctor dc, either directly or by doing things like standing guarantor for rental ( I have just had to stand guarantor for my ds who is 30 and has 9 years of solid employment and whose income covers the rent) or pay for car insurance , professional exams .

This is really exclusionary , the medical profession should be a viable option for anyone academically able it should not be the reserve of those with financially comfortable backgrounds

Do you know what the salary actually is? "High" is very subjective, and appearances can be decieving. FWIW, where I am, GP takes 6 years of medical school + 3-4 years hospital work, + 4 years GP training, minimum.

lauriefairycake They should have NO debt, it should be fully funded - they should have to work for NHS for 5 years after qualifying as 'payment'

I think this would be part of the solution.

I also think they should get rid of the title ‘junior’ or only use it for maybe the first 2 years after qualifying, like we do with the renamed Early Career Teacher. After that just call them doctors as it’s very misleading.

I also think that they shouldn’t work such ridiculous hours. But of course this will only happen when we have enough of them to cover the hours there are in a hospital. I would say minimum starting wage for first year should be 35 000. I would pay trainee gps a bit more as that is what we need right now.

The terrible thing is that there are so many really clever and motivated kids trying to get into study medicine, it’s so competitive. We need to open up more training places quickly.

Ideally I would like to see all money from the National Lottery be directed towards the NHS. As people are not motivated to pay extra tax to fund what’s needed, maybe this indirect tax would solve a problem?

I feel like everyone forgets that junior doctors are only junior doctors for a couple of years. Yes they work hard but I think as a starting salary that’s really not too bad - they’re still in training really aren't they?

Everyone’s like “Oh but to become a GP takes 6 years of medical school and 10 years of further training” or whatever. Yes, well, most high earning jobs take training and career progression don’t they? 18+ 16 = 34. If I was on a six figure salary by the age of 34 I’d be laughing.

GP is a specially, by the way, with exams that need to be passed and a training program to completed.

Not many people finish in minimum time. Try pushing 40 and having no control over where you live. Having to find a new job every year.

Love the pun!

Well actually I absolutely believe that working conditions is what all this should be about.

I mean I wouldn’t sell my sanity for a million pounds, but then a job shouldn’t require that of me.

If doctor’s working conditions were reasonable, they pay would be too.

REALLY the money should be spend giving the NHS an overhaul, but I have no idea actually how realistic that is, so… here we are.

I would expect £45k for a junior doctor minimum

@moveoverye

No, I don't think if doctors working conditions were reasonable the pay would be too.

You can improve the NHS but you can't remove the difficulties or importance of the job

Totally agree. And I suspect that for a lot of the junior docs on the ground, it's the working conditions that are driving this.

Starting salary for a pharmacist is 43K.

Junior doctors salary is ridiculously low.

I would say 45k minimum

This seems reasonable. Though I don't think I would allow to opt out of pension I think that would cost far too much in admin.

In answer to the original question, I think the starting salary is okay, I would reduce the annual increases which junior doctors and consultants get, double the number of medical school places/training places and limit the working hours to 48 (with overtime payments if they need to work more than 40 hours and aren't swinging the lead).

£150k 3 days a week north east England. I really don’t know the ins and outs of it just seemed a good salary to me especially given part time and location in the U.K. I’m also not sure if GP salary fluctuates year on year or not

No comparison.

themullanyfund.org/news/61-of-medics-privately-educated/
Maybe the above figure is exacerbated at 61% but certainly I have heard 25% to 30% of medics are privately educated. While I have some sympathy for the parents of medics who have spent £££s on their childrens' education only for medic salaries not to begin at 40K I don't think the entire public will follow. The idea of the vast majority of medics being in a place of what the public would conceive as poor is disingenuous at best.

Medics are high achievers and have realistically a range of career options and you hope altruism is at least part of the reason for choosing medicine. We need a sustainable NHS and if we increase the salaries of junior doctors to levels that could be expected in the private sector the tax payer burden for a free at the point of delivery NHS would be such the whole system may collapse.

We have the challenger today increasing the amount that can be accumulated in pension pots before tax and that value is pretty high. Who is likely to benefit ... consultants for one. Sorry for me trying to convince the public medicine is poorly paid in general won't wash with the public and only undermines the legitimacy of those that are genuinely poorly paid in their arduous industrial action.

Just for the avoidance of doubt I think doctors should have a high salary. We trust them with so many things. For example my recent emergency c section I felt able to trust the doctors to deliver my baby alive and well - which they did. They really are amazing. I have no idea though if the doctor was a junior doctor or not. I’m really not close enough nor fully understand the roles / responsibility a junior doctor has compared to a doctor. I am just trying to come at it from all angles.

I was just wondering if it is a case of junior doctors being on a lower salary until they can access the higher salary with experience then maybe it’s more understandable. If junior doctors actually have ultimate responsibility of certain things then their salary needs to be much, much higher.

In my profession I had 5 or so years of a very average or below average salary while I built up experience and responsibility. Now I am have ultimate responsibility for certain things and my salary reflects that and it was worth the wait while gaining experience. Again no idea if comparable to junior doctors or not.

*Doctors are high achievers from often quite financially stable middle class backgrounds

this is an important point, it is becoming increasingly for difficult for people from low income backgrounds to become doctors . There has been some research that shows that of it is increasingly necessary to have parental financial support just to get through the last two years of medical school let alone the foundation years.*

This is actually the case with a lot of healthcare training. Students are regularly sent on placement over 100 miles from their university, have to pay for double accommodation for the 6 weeks or however long, need access to a car help move them to their temporary accommodation. The local placements are often prioritised for mature students with family caring commitments.
Can be pretty difficult to manage without parental support.

What is the point of these threads? Do they advance the cause of junior doctors or do they simply pit wages against wages and force unhelpful comparisons between jobs?

Junior doctors pay is not particularly good. They have potential to reach very good pay. The working conditions along the way are their main barrier to this success. I hope they can achieve improved conditions.

Does it actually matter what everyone’s opinion on what doctors “should” earn is? If the pay and conditions aren’t good enough to stop them leaving for Canada and Australia then something needs to change or the NHS is in even more trouble than it is right now.

@JL642 that is an unusually high wage for a GP. He is mostly likely a partner. You can google all your local doctor practices and find out the average wage of the GPs at yours.