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AIBU?

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Original poster

Who's unreasonable - me or window cleaner?

738 replies

HugATwat · 13/03/2023 10:51

My dog is petrified of the window cleaner.

The reason I started using my current window cleaner is because he always texts so I know in advance when he's coming.

On Friday evening, WC text to say he was coming on Saturday morning. But I was going to be out Saturday morning so I texted him back and said to leave it for this month because the dog would be home alone and wouldn't cope. I said I'd still be happy to pay but please don't clean the windows.

No reply.

I texted again first thing on Saturday morning. No reply.

I called him on Saturday morning. He didn't answer. I left a message. No reply.

I texted him again before we went out saying please don't clean my windows today.

I went out because I couldn't avoid it. I'd asked a couple of friends if they could sit with the dog but they couldn't, far too short notice. When I came back, the windows had been cleaned. The dog was in a right state and had pissed and shit all over the floor.

So I spent an hour or so calming the dog down. Then another couple of hours cleaning everything up. And the living room carpet will need a professional because the piddle has stained quite badly.

I texted the WC to tell him I wouldn't be paying because I'd specifically asked him not to clean the windows.
This time, he texted back. Quelle fucking surprise.

I'm holding firm and not paying. Needless to say I've told him to take me off his books for the future.

It's a weird situation because I was actually willing to pay him for NOT doing the work. But I'm not willing to pay for work that he's done that I specifically asked him not to do.

Am I being unreasonable here? I'm still so pissed off.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
DizzyLizzyKizzy · 17/03/2023 19:17

Mobiles aren't always reliable. If he only switched his phone on in the morning, the messages might not have come through right away.

Utter tosh!

She rang, she messaged etc.

His response if he didn't get theses messages from mobiles that aren't reliable (🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣) should've been....

Sorry I didn't get those messages or calls etc, I messed up, I hope your dog is ok.

You really are clutching at straws with the "we don't know why he didn't check his messages", its because he's inept.

DizzyLizzyKizzy · 17/03/2023 19:18

Crumpetdisappointment · 17/03/2023 19:17

all these comments calling people thick ignorant twats, and the like. So unreasonable.
it is a very derogatory thread towards of other people's opinions. in the grand scheme of things, it doesnt affect anyone apart from the ahem, op and her carpet

And the WC with a loss of a client and potential bad press.....

The whole world is run on reviews these days.

DizzyLizzyKizzy · 17/03/2023 19:19

And, actually, yes, train the dog. Distract him with treats. Make the window cleaner's arrival a good thing. Don't herd him around the house avoiding the window cleaner. That only reinforces that the pole is something to fear.

If only the OP could've been there to distract the dog with treats.....

Crumpetdisappointment · 17/03/2023 19:20

DizzyLizzyKizzy · 17/03/2023 19:18

And the WC with a loss of a client and potential bad press.....

The whole world is run on reviews these days.

Show quote history

ok so two people

JohnnyYenSetHimselfOnFireAgain · 17/03/2023 19:22

BadNomad · 17/03/2023 18:56

Just because people have a different perspective and opinion on things, doesn't make them dense.

And people who love their dogs wouldn't put them in this position.

Show quote history

Having a different perspective and opinion on things is one thing, but being completely unable or unwilling to accept simple facts that are clearly stated is the work of the terminally thick.

DizzyLizzyKizzy · 17/03/2023 19:22

@Crumpetdisappointment what a strange comment...

The WC will potentially suffer a lot more than OP, but I've got to say he deserves that.

OP needs a new window cleaner 🤷‍♀️

Potential bad press on local FB sure, reviews etc, a lot more damaging for WC 👏

BadNomad · 17/03/2023 19:24

DizzyLizzyKizzy · 17/03/2023 19:19

And, actually, yes, train the dog. Distract him with treats. Make the window cleaner's arrival a good thing. Don't herd him around the house avoiding the window cleaner. That only reinforces that the pole is something to fear.

If only the OP could've been there to distract the dog with treats.....

She's had years to do it. She's had years to address her dog's issue with the window cleaner. All she has done is reinforce the dog's fear and pass the responsibility to the window cleaner to communicate.

DizzyLizzyKizzy · 17/03/2023 19:26

@BadNomad sorry didn't realise you were a dog behaviourist and knew the OPs dog....

Crumpetdisappointment · 17/03/2023 19:27

i should hope the op hasnt slandered him on a public forum

Napmum · 17/03/2023 19:28

He's cost you a professional carpet clean and an hour cleaning up piss and shit so no, don't pay him. He really should have checked his messages. He'd have got paid and had less work, hopefully he'll learn a lesson from this.

JohnnyYenSetHimselfOnFireAgain · 17/03/2023 19:28

BadNomad · 17/03/2023 19:24

She's had years to do it. She's had years to address her dog's issue with the window cleaner. All she has done is reinforce the dog's fear and pass the responsibility to the window cleaner to communicate.

Show quote history

How on Earth do you know the OP's dog's fear can be cured?

BadNomad · 17/03/2023 19:28

DizzyLizzyKizzy · 17/03/2023 19:17

Mobiles aren't always reliable. If he only switched his phone on in the morning, the messages might not have come through right away.

Utter tosh!

She rang, she messaged etc.

His response if he didn't get theses messages from mobiles that aren't reliable (🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣) should've been....

Sorry I didn't get those messages or calls etc, I messed up, I hope your dog is ok.

You really are clutching at straws with the "we don't know why he didn't check his messages", its because he's inept.

What time did she ring at? Where was he when she was ringing him? You don't know any more than I do about why this happened. Also, don't you find it weird that he still continued to clean the windows when he realised the OP wasn't there herding the dog around like she normally does? Because if that was me I would think "hmm that's strange" and probably check my phone. There is a lot about this that doesn't make sense.

DizzyLizzyKizzy · 17/03/2023 19:31

@JohnnyYenSetHimselfOnFireAgain because @BadNomad is a telepathic dog behaviourist!

But don't rely on contact with her, because she owns an "unreliable" mobile ...

JohnnyYenSetHimselfOnFireAgain · 17/03/2023 19:32

DizzyLizzyKizzy · 17/03/2023 19:31

@JohnnyYenSetHimselfOnFireAgain because @BadNomad is a telepathic dog behaviourist!

But don't rely on contact with her, because she owns an "unreliable" mobile ...

😂😂😂

DizzyLizzyKizzy · 17/03/2023 19:34

Crumpetdisappointment · 17/03/2023 19:27

i should hope the op hasnt slandered him on a public forum

I bloody hope she has!!

If people ask opinions, they deserve answers!

If everyone that had shit service kept quiet, then people would use them and have more shit service.

A "totally lacks communication skills, which ended with my dog being traumatised and me having to spend a lot of time and money to deal with this" would be true and honest.

WiddlinDiddlin · 17/03/2023 19:57

I am a dog behaviourist...

Teaching/training a dog to not be scared of a thing they're already scared of, when you're not present..

Isn't actually possible. We can't 'train' anyone not to be scared, we can only train them to suppress an outwardly fearful reaction, and we can only do that if we are there, and we shouldn't do it, because its really bad for anyone to be taught to suppress fear (and the way you'd do it would be to use aversives, again, unkind and not safe).

You can modify behaviour, using desensitization, classical conditioning etc, when you're present, to change the underlying emotional response to the trigger for the fearful reaction.

But you do need to be there to do that, and you need some predictability of the trigger, and then you need to do this often enough that the dogs emotional response changes.

There is no guarantee however that once you're not there, the dog won't be scared.

You could set up situations with ladders/pole etc and perhaps a camera system that delivers treats or a remote controlled treat delivery system (Treat n Train/Pet Tutor/Manners minder) so you could watch and pair reinforcer with sound, however:

Such devices are unreliable:
Such devices are very expensive:
Such devices tend to use small dry treats that are not all that reinforcing for most dogs.

They also don't work at a particularly long range so you'd still need to be right there.

During ALL this training you'd need to ensure the WC did not attend without you present, or they'd undo the work you'd done.

And... even if you did all that, you still have a dog who is likely to back-slide to square one or worse, should the window cleaner startle them, drop a ladder, etc, when you're really not there.

DizzyLizzyKizzy · 17/03/2023 20:00

WiddlinDiddlin · 17/03/2023 19:57

I am a dog behaviourist...

Teaching/training a dog to not be scared of a thing they're already scared of, when you're not present..

Isn't actually possible. We can't 'train' anyone not to be scared, we can only train them to suppress an outwardly fearful reaction, and we can only do that if we are there, and we shouldn't do it, because its really bad for anyone to be taught to suppress fear (and the way you'd do it would be to use aversives, again, unkind and not safe).

You can modify behaviour, using desensitization, classical conditioning etc, when you're present, to change the underlying emotional response to the trigger for the fearful reaction.

But you do need to be there to do that, and you need some predictability of the trigger, and then you need to do this often enough that the dogs emotional response changes.

There is no guarantee however that once you're not there, the dog won't be scared.

You could set up situations with ladders/pole etc and perhaps a camera system that delivers treats or a remote controlled treat delivery system (Treat n Train/Pet Tutor/Manners minder) so you could watch and pair reinforcer with sound, however:

Such devices are unreliable:
Such devices are very expensive:
Such devices tend to use small dry treats that are not all that reinforcing for most dogs.

They also don't work at a particularly long range so you'd still need to be right there.

During ALL this training you'd need to ensure the WC did not attend without you present, or they'd undo the work you'd done.

And... even if you did all that, you still have a dog who is likely to back-slide to square one or worse, should the window cleaner startle them, drop a ladder, etc, when you're really not there.

👏 👏 👏

The voice of reason.

DizzyLizzyKizzy · 17/03/2023 20:03

Crumpetdisappointment · 17/03/2023 19:27

i should hope the op hasnt slandered him on a public forum

And slander is a false statement, which this is not!

Crumpetdisappointment · 17/03/2023 20:14

so you say @DizzyLizzyKizzy
we have no idea, but it seems unlikely

BadNomad · 17/03/2023 20:17

WiddlinDiddlin · 17/03/2023 19:57

I am a dog behaviourist...

Teaching/training a dog to not be scared of a thing they're already scared of, when you're not present..

Isn't actually possible. We can't 'train' anyone not to be scared, we can only train them to suppress an outwardly fearful reaction, and we can only do that if we are there, and we shouldn't do it, because its really bad for anyone to be taught to suppress fear (and the way you'd do it would be to use aversives, again, unkind and not safe).

You can modify behaviour, using desensitization, classical conditioning etc, when you're present, to change the underlying emotional response to the trigger for the fearful reaction.

But you do need to be there to do that, and you need some predictability of the trigger, and then you need to do this often enough that the dogs emotional response changes.

There is no guarantee however that once you're not there, the dog won't be scared.

You could set up situations with ladders/pole etc and perhaps a camera system that delivers treats or a remote controlled treat delivery system (Treat n Train/Pet Tutor/Manners minder) so you could watch and pair reinforcer with sound, however:

Such devices are unreliable:
Such devices are very expensive:
Such devices tend to use small dry treats that are not all that reinforcing for most dogs.

They also don't work at a particularly long range so you'd still need to be right there.

During ALL this training you'd need to ensure the WC did not attend without you present, or they'd undo the work you'd done.

And... even if you did all that, you still have a dog who is likely to back-slide to square one or worse, should the window cleaner startle them, drop a ladder, etc, when you're really not there.

Of course you can't train a dog when you're not there. No one suggested that. But can you seriously say the OP hasn't made her dog's fear worse by herding it around the house to get away from the window cleaner? And that there is zero point in trying to associate the window cleaner's arrival with a positive treat?

UndertheCedartree · 17/03/2023 20:21

JustRingJoeDuffy · 13/03/2023 11:45

Not at all the point - but do UK windows not open inwards for cleaning them?!

I was reading thinking, YANBU, this is like those car window cleaning guys that lurk at traffic lights and dash out to 'clean' your windscreen and expect you to pay even though you didnt want them to.
But surely the obvious thing with a nervy dog is clean your own - I do my own windows, its a pretty quick job.

But then read there was no way you could do your own outside ones. I'm in a third floor appt, its fine - they open in. Do yours open outwards - or is there another issue (apart from just not wanting to - which is totally fine!!!).

I have sash windows, they slide up!

DizzyLizzyKizzy · 17/03/2023 20:31

Crumpetdisappointment · 17/03/2023 20:14

so you say @DizzyLizzyKizzy
we have no idea, but it seems unlikely

What seems unlikely??

adriftindenofvipers · 17/03/2023 20:39

@BadNomad - "There is a lot about this that doesn't make sense."

There sure is, a lot of it coming from posters like you.

Did you miss the bit where the dog is a rescue who had been poor treated by a previous owner, and this is the last vestige of the things that caused her fear? So heartless.

JohnnyYenSetHimselfOnFireAgain · 17/03/2023 20:41

adriftindenofvipers · 17/03/2023 20:39

@BadNomad - "There is a lot about this that doesn't make sense."

There sure is, a lot of it coming from posters like you.

Did you miss the bit where the dog is a rescue who had been poor treated by a previous owner, and this is the last vestige of the things that caused her fear? So heartless.

Spot on.

BadNomad · 17/03/2023 20:55

adriftindenofvipers · 17/03/2023 20:39

@BadNomad - "There is a lot about this that doesn't make sense."

There sure is, a lot of it coming from posters like you.

Did you miss the bit where the dog is a rescue who had been poor treated by a previous owner, and this is the last vestige of the things that caused her fear? So heartless.

I'm heartless for thinking there was no need for a poor dog to be left to run loose around the house in fear? Or heartless because I'm not sympathising with the OP over her carpets? Well, I don't care about the carpets. I do care about a dog who was left to get into that state because her owner did nothing to prevent this other than send a text and make a phone call.

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