To think this will just increase pressure on the poorest/vulnerable?

[Zebedee55]

Sanctions increased, putting more (often unrealistic) pressure on parents, carers, and sick/disabled.🙁

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/universal-credit-sanctions-hunt-budget-b2298836.html

Unless you agree with unlimited benefits for any reason with no checks or questioning, then there has to be some restrictions

Just about sums it up really ...

Exactly. Assuming not everyone is on decent salary, you barely make any profit going to work. Including transport cost, or days when child is sick so can't go to nursery and you can't make any money, you end up with loss. I'm not surprised some parents choose not to go back to work for the first few years, but it's easy to say for male well-off politician what others should do.

The “there’s no magic money tree” line is always trotted out when benefits are on the line. But never the same line of questioning to the BILLIONS that have been funnelled into the pockets of the Tories.

But sure. Get your knickers in a twist cos someone claims pennies a week.

The benefits system helps people 'on paper' but not in reality which just about sums up this tory government. You can keep changing the leader but you can't change the modus operandi

I can't work because I have rheumatoid arthritis. I could do a few hours a week from home, but the few jobs I've applied for that could accommodate that have gone no further than the initial online application because I have no references (I haven't worked for two decades and have no friends etc to supply a personal reference).

However, when I applied for PIP I was told I didn't qualify, despite being unable to walk to the bathroom without help some days.

I would love to know what the Tories would have me do. Can't work/get a very part time job that I could theoretically do, but also not able to claim anything.

It’s not how the situation is, it’s how you feel about it apparently. If you say you’re too sad to work then that should be accepted and generous benefits given, according to people on MN

But it doesn't work like that. This is just what benefit bashers like to peddle online and among themselves.

You can't just decide you're too sad to work or just feeling down and they'll say 'Right, here's some benefit money for you. Hope you feel better whenever'.

There's a process to go through and medical evidence to produce. Even still, many genuine people don't get any support after doing all that.

WhitleyBeyonce …….reapply for pip, lots don’t get first time round

Where did I say that you shouldn’t have children?

You either, get the childcare help, make the decision to live off your DH’s wages or suck it up and pay for child care just like those of us in work have/ had to. It’s not right for anyone to just expect the state to pay for them through choice.

Some people are generally unemployable though, as an employer I've taken on someone who can't focus on the Job, can't work on their own due to lack of initiative so has to be constantly told what to do next, can't follow basic social skills to work as part of a team, can't remember anything they are shown and are just a liability but I can't sack them because they have ADHD and autism so the law protects them.
I was not informed of these disabilities when I agreed to employ them because apparently that might have caused discrimination so they were advised by the job centre they didn't need to disclose this.
It also cost money to train new staff even if they can't be trained.
Is this fair on an employer trying to run a business?
Is it fair on any employer recruiting staff to have incompetent candidates applying knowing they are unable to do the job but they have an obligation to the job centre?

"Get the childcare help" where do I magic that up from? My husband brings home 1700 a month, rent for my small flat is over a grand. Cheapest we could find. He is paid by the govt. They decide to pay him a shitty wage whilst paying themselves and all their friends big bucks. I'm currently studying my MSc and when I'm done I've chosen a career that will more than pay it back. I don't feel bad for claiming for a couple of years so we don't need to use food banks/get into thousands worth of debt. A friend of mine took out a loan for childcare. I guess I could do that??? That won't create any issues nationwide?

What if he and I were on minimum wage? Which is common in UK. We definitely wouldn't be able to pay for childcare. My parents still work as the retirement age keeps increasing so they can't help. So people who do crucial jobs shouldn't have kids?

Yes, obviously. But it's a feature not a bug.

Same position here, I would LOVE a job out of the home ( I work from home currently) but am lonely and miserable.
If someone would care for dc so I could go to work I would be thrilled.

The policy is not designed to be effective or helpful. It's designed to get votes by making life worse for people the Tories have villified, ie job seekers or disabled/ill people because that's easier than actually improving anyone's lives. But this way the tories can say they are 'doing something about it'.

Sanctions are not only cruel but a waste of money that cost society more by creating poverty and worse physical and mental health. The vast majority of job seekers are doing their best, and are usually only on benefits for a few months between jobs, or are on benefits because their jobs don't pay enough to live on. The people 'addicted to benefits' are the employers who can get away with not paying a living wage or offering set hours of employment each month,

I can't sack them because they have ADHD and autism so the law protects them

Actually you can; it's not easy and you'd need to be very careful to follow due process, but if someone genuinely can't do the job even with appropriate adjustments in place terminating the employment is still an option

Yep. The tories, a narcissistic breed are shooting the selves in the foot by thinking the masses think they way they do. On their little planet. Ugh.

The vast majority of job seekers are doing their best, and are usually only on benefits for a few months between jobs, or are on benefits because their jobs don't pay enough to live on.

A quarter of people are on job seeking benefits for over 100 weeks.

The issue with all this is:

1. Mumsnet seems to operate under the assumption that everyone on benefits is ‘trying their best’, truly wants to get off them, and would never game the system. Why, I’m not sure, as every other demographic seems infallible.
2. If we just offer generous benefits to anyone who needs them, hardly any questions asked, for as long as they want them, then benefits becomes more appealing than working. Nobody wants to slave away for 50 years for a mediocre pension and to pay their own nursing home fees (which the state will pay if you don’t anyway).
3. The country is becoming nothing but a life support system for the terminally unemployed or under-working, or people with temporary or minor health issues that they don’t want to do anything about to help themselves. I don’t want this.

What if he and I were on minimum wage? Which is common in UK. We definitely wouldn't be able to pay for childcare. My parents still work as the retirement age keeps increasing so they can't help. So people who do crucial jobs shouldn't have kids?

Not at all; having children is a choice for the low waged just as it is for everyone else, but the key word there is choice and clearly many feel that the benefit system shouldn't exist to support those

Disabled people aside, the “most vulnerable” are not people living in life assured tenancy council housing with council tax, service charges and rent fully covered by the tax payer. Receiving income support, full child benefit and access to foodbanks and all other myriad financial support there is for people who think they’re above working a lowbrow job or because “it wouldn’t pay them to work” (because they’d lose their benefits).

The “most vulnerable” are, for example, a couple who are:

• Both working but only on £26k a year each
• Have 1 or 2 children whose childcare costs at least £1,200 a month each
• Privately renting in the south where they are probably paying upwards of £2k pcm rent for a small family home in a not great area.
• Do not qualify for foodbanks
• Do not qualify for universal credit
• Do not qualify for Thames Water low income rates
• Do not qualify for broadband low income rates
• No subsidised school dinners
• No “pupil premium” (free laptops, tablets and the like)
• Do not qualify for cheaper entry into places like London Zoo, etc. that run schemes for those on universal credit
• Are not able to save any money and will therefore never own and be at the whims of private landlords who can push the rent way up or decide to sell their BTLs (happening a lot these days). Bringing lots of disruption to family life and children’s schooling if having to move to ever cheaper areas to afford the rent.

The “most vulnerable” are not the work shirkers (I know a good handful) but families who are in low paid (but not low enough to qualify for UC) jobs. For example, a paramedic makes around £22k.

Which is 25% or a significant MINORITY. I.e. what the PP said was correct.

Clearly your grasp of maths is on a par with your understanding of serious MH issues.

Paying money for childcare upfront, and giving more of it, is a very good much needed move. Nothing to complain about there.

The only problem with sanctions was when they were unfairly and incorrectly applied, so more training for staff to ensure they’re doing it properly also seems like a good idea.

People forget that also, many people provide a massive contribution to society.

I volunteer in short bursts 3 x a week atm teaching English to local people at the library. I used to be an English Teacher.

There are MANY MANY. Human beings doing this kind of thing. If everyone was in the workforce anyway who would do this. Humanity is not a machine ffs.

Oh and it's the Tories who have fucked it up. Not the vulnerable people

Just wondering for all those saying just use childcare- what about for those whose children’s can’t access paid childcare? I have just given up work (teacher) because my 5 year old (reception) DS (ASD) can only manage school for 1 hour a day, he does from 8.45-9.45. We’re hoping to get to 10 by Easter holidays. How do I work? Genuinely interested in your answers- not being argumentative.

I’m not going to bore you with the huge efforts I’m going to with our council to get a suitable placement etc but it goes without saying of course I am, in the meantime this is where we are and have been for months.

My children were a choice, having a disabled child was not.