To think this will just increase pressure on the poorest/vulnerable?

[Zebedee55]

Sanctions increased, putting more (often unrealistic) pressure on parents, carers, and sick/disabled.🙁

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/universal-credit-sanctions-hunt-budget-b2298836.html

Who is going to pick those kids up from school then?

@Krustykrabpizza why wasn't this figured out before they had children? This is half the problem, people not thinking and planning ahead and taking responsibility for their decisions.

I don't think I've met anyone whose situation was the same until their children were old enough to walk home and stay home alone for a few hours

There will always be people who need to be cared for by society - both physically and mentally. What we are discussing is the less severe end of the spectrum, the low mood/low level anxiety. Not full severe psychosis which of course is highly complex and needs supporting.

A reasonable level of financial support until the until the person is well enough to work again. Appropriate, accessible, funded mental health care on the NHS. Help to work part-time without becoming worse off under the benefits system. So, the same level of care that you'd expect for someone with an equally disabling physical health condition, if only the government wasn't so keen on perpetuating poverty and inequality.

Treatment. When people are ill they need treatment in order to be work fit again.

Problem is the Tories wrecked the NHS (along with everything else in the UK) so sick people aren't getting the medical treatment they need.

If the treatment for mental health problems was better then maybe there would be less people off work with depression.

If support for disabled people was better then maybe more disabled people and carers could work. When I say more I don't mean I think all disabled people and their carers could work. I just mean that there will be some people who can't work because there is no affordable care for their relative or no flexibility to take time off when needed.

@Moonicorn undoubtedly went to the university of life and the school of hard knocks.

He obviously just doesn’t want to get better enough, Eightiesgirl. I’m just drafting a letter to my husband’s new consultant psychiatrist to cancel the appointment he has pending regarding the treatment-resistant bipolar disorder that caused his medical retirement after 30+ years of work to say he doesn’t need it any more, he just has to want to get better.

@purpleboy agreed. Weird how wealthy people like Boris Johnson with his 100 kids never had to take responsibility for his actions.

For me, the really vulnerable in society are the hard working people who are just above the benefits system, who earn only slightly too much to receive much help or support. When taxes go up to pay the benefits for those below them income wise, or public sector pay increases, or bankers bailouts, or expensive train lines to Birmingham etc., then they are the ones who are really and disproportionately hit.

They used to be known as the JAMs- just about managing. These days, they are the slowly drowning. And not that slowly, either.

Not working and claiming UC ‘because I want to pick my kids up from school’ or because ‘I’m depressed’ shouldn’t be an option.

Do you think 'picking kids from school' and 'depression' are in the same category or do you think people aren't clinically depressed, they're just sad?

It is a system that traps people. My friend has no housing costs and universal credit means it makes more sense for her to work two days a week (especially with the Scottish child payment adding £200 a month) even though kids don't really need childcare.

To get a job paying the same would be a massive increase in working hours/ responsibility so I don't blame her but it is daft.

And it is going to make her poorer in later life as far as pension and everything else goes. So it's both a fortune position and a trap at the same time

If we accept your premise that 'wanting to recover' is a cure for clinical depression, then what if someone actually doesn't want it enough? They starve/freeze to death in poverty?

Really I think there needs to be a difference between those who really can't work and those who are currently better off doing minimal hours but really should be working more. But if course there will always be people somewhere between the two so it is easier said than done

Unless you agree with unlimited benefits for any reason with no checks or questioning, then there has to be some restrictions. You should at the very least make all of your appointments and the healthcare professions should be satisfied you’re following the advice they give you.

I agree with others that the benefits system needs a complete overhaul. I thought there were some good things in that report, increase in childcare costs and payment up front were positive.

And it is going to make her poorer in later life as far as pension

She needn’t worry, posters on here will be saying there should be a generous pension for those ‘unfortunate enough to have needed benefits’ 🤷🏼‍♀️ no accountability anywhere.

People with severe mental health conditions do ALWAYS want to get better. They want to be normal, functioning members of society.

I had complex PTSD and have been sacked from a job because I kept having memory blackouts when under stress. This caused me to attempt to take my own life as I felt like such a failure. I didn't want those symptoms. My eating disorders resurfaced.

I'm hopeful to get better and find something appropriate like working from home or more gentle work but people just don't get better because they're told to get a grip.

I agree with providing support getting back to work for anyone who needs it but it's not always that simple.

I'm really surprised that you do not know this.

I'm not surprised that a person who claims to have gone through a major mental health problem like depression (not depression lite or one of those people like this claim to have overcome by sheer will and strength or just thinking positively or going for a walk or taking a bath) doesn't truly understand what it's like for some people and that mental and physical illness affects people differently.

I think @Moonicorn is saying there's a difference in "feeling depressed" and actual clinical depression, we all feel down sometimes, it's a normal emotion, and yes, you do need to kick yourself up the arse when you feel like that

I think fixing the NHS would make a massive difference.. for instance, I’m waiting for an operation, that the list just gets longer because it’s classed as ‘elective’. In the meantime I’m on disability benefits. If the operation is successful, I’ll hopefully be well enough to go back to work. So there’s a short term cost of treatment, but long term benefit to the taxpayers if I’m well and contributing.

As someone else with severe mental health issues I found going back to work helped me significantly. The structure of the routine, the social aspect and the extra money all combined to being extremely beneficial to my wellbeing.

And for some people, that social aspect and living under someone else's routine (plus so many it her details you probably don't realise) is what sends them spiralling into further mental crisis. What worked for you and some doesn't have to work for others and that's okay.

I agree about the potential for harm, but it's a shame there's so little focus on the good bits - especially the proposal to scrap work related assessments and paying childcare costs on universal credit up front, rather than in arrears

I'd hope everyone would support proper help for the genuinely ill/disabled, but am not sure just not wanting to work because of childcare or whatever cuts it

I think there is. Universal credit has made that distinction and is on the case of the latter.

But without the childcare help what do you expect people to do? A full day's worth of childcare is 80£ a day here. Not London. I have 2 children. It's not affordable for anyone who isn't relatively wealthy. You are looking at over 2 grand a month for childcare. So for it to be worth it for me to go back to work before the free hours kick in (actually, for us to be even able to AFFORD childcare), I would have to be earning OVER £3 grand a month. My husband is in emergency services. He doesn't sit on his arse twiddling his thumbs. And if you say "don't have kids then," that's just a horrible mentality of only the rich have kids. And in that case, there's no arguing with you