Page 6 | To think this will just increase pressure on the poorest/vulnerable?

Zebedee55 · 2023-03-13T09:03:16+00:00

Sanctions increased, putting more (often unrealistic) pressure on parents, carers, and sick/disabled.🙁 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/universal-credit-sanctions-hunt-budget-b2298836.html

KievsOutTheOven · 13/03/2023 12:54

oddUsername · 13/03/2023 12:45

Of course she can be a carer and work.
It doesn't necessarily need to be round the clock care.
My mum works full time and cares for my dad with Alzheimer's.
She takes care of all his basic needs so he can live at home.

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My dad works full time as a carer (paid employment) and is also a carer for family members (unpaid)

One of those family members, in addition to the free care provided by my dad, also gets paid care from carers.

LakieLady · 13/03/2023 12:55

purpleboy · 13/03/2023 10:54

Who is going to pick those kids up from school then?

@Krustykrabpizza why wasn't this figured out before they had children? This is half the problem, people not thinking and planning ahead and taking responsibility for their decisions.

Is it possible to pre-book places in nursery or after-school club before you ttc?

pointythings · 13/03/2023 12:56

@Moonicorn it's both. The two are not mutually exclusive. For someone who claims to know about mental health, you don't know a lot about mental health. You appear to have zero interest in finding out. You are unable to understand that not everyone's life is like yours has been. Your thinking is completely black and white. You are utterly lacking in empathy and compassion. You'd benefit from working on all those things.

Moonicorn · 13/03/2023 12:56

LakieLady · 13/03/2023 12:51

My DB has bipolar disorder. He has a very long cycle, with years and years of crippling depression, during which time he is a total recluse who finds leaving his home terrifying, followed by manic episodes that result in being sectioned for months on end.

At the moment, his condition is controlled by depot injections every 4 weeks, that reduce him to a zombie for at least 2 of those weeks. He's nearly 58, and hasn't been well enough to work for over 30 years.

What job do you think he could do for the last 10 years or so of his working life?

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Possibly shift work, where he works those 2 initial weeks. Not ideal but better than doing nothing.

SouthCountryGirl · 13/03/2023 12:57

Moonicorn · 13/03/2023 12:56

Possibly shift work, where he works those 2 initial weeks. Not ideal but better than doing nothing.

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How would that work? Can't see any boss being happy about someone having 2 weeks off constantly

Moonicorn · 13/03/2023 12:58

KievsOutTheOven · 13/03/2023 12:52

The same as what happens to people who have paid carers during the time that their carers aren’t with them?

carers.org/downloads/resources-pdfs/working-for-carers/unpaid-carers.pdf

This might be helpful; it lays it out pretty clearly so there should be no margin for misunderstanding. There is no excuse for ignorance on this matter.

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The thing is we all ‘care’ for our relatives and there’s a clear distinction between paid carers and family. Nursery are paid to look after my
child - I’m not. I can understand a ‘carer’s allowance’ where the relative’s needs are so great you cannot earn a wage, but if you can, why is it needed?

Moonicorn · 13/03/2023 12:59

SouthCountryGirl · 13/03/2023 12:57

How would that work? Can't see any boss being happy about someone having 2 weeks off constantly

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There are plenty of jobs that would allow this, albeit low skill. Like I said it would be better than nothing - 30 years is an awfully long time to be paid for by others.

yellowspanner · 13/03/2023 12:59

The benefit system was designed as a safety net not as a lifestyle choice. If some of these claimants had to work to get their benefits then they would.
It's all too easy.
As for picking children up from school there are after school clubs, making arrangements with other local parents, working evenings or nights.
Or perhaps thinking about it before you have kids.

ilovesooty · 13/03/2023 13:00

pointythings · 13/03/2023 12:35

@Moonicorn I have had it now. If you want to know more about autism/ADHD we have this amazing thing called Google, which you can use to look it up and find out that (gasp) it isn't a personality related. Since you are able to use MN, I presume that you are able to use the Internet, which means that your post is at the very least disingenuous.

There's no point in reasoning with that kind of poster.

KievsOutTheOven · 13/03/2023 13:00

Moonicorn · 13/03/2023 12:35

@KievsOutTheOven if you were working full time then you weren’t his carer were you?

Further from this - what choices did I have? He needed care.

His psychiatric nurse had two options - inpatient or community care.

Inpatient would have been incredibly expensive and invasive, so community care was the preference for everyone.

We have two options for community care - family care, or external care. External care is the most expensive option. We went for family care under the support of the psychiatry team.

I worked full-time previously. I had two choices - continue to work full-time, or quit my job and become a carer.

If I quit my job, our family would be completely reliant on the state. If I continued to work, we got nothing from the state. I’ll reiterate - we got absolutely no financial help.

And yet here you are, criticising me? I could have chosen any number of options which are more expensive, and easier for me.

pointythings · 13/03/2023 13:00

There are plenty of jobs that would allow this, albeit low skill. Like I said it would be better than nothing - 30 years is an awfully long time to be paid for by others.

Examples of these 'plenty of jobs' that meet those criteria?

Poster in this case is also full time employed, so not 'paid for by others'. Being the wage earner because your life partner is ill, is an act of love. But this is probably something you are unable to comprehend.

TooBigForMyBoots · 13/03/2023 13:01

Puzzledandpissedoff · 13/03/2023 12:05

What if he and I were on minimum wage? Which is common in UK. We definitely wouldn't be able to pay for childcare. My parents still work as the retirement age keeps increasing so they can't help. So people who do crucial jobs shouldn't have kids?

Not at all; having children is a choice for the low waged just as it is for everyone else, but the key word there is choice and clearly many feel that the benefit system shouldn't exist to support those

I don't think you understand how expensive it is. For example Boris and Carrie Johnson, they have 2 children, well paying jobs and a couple of rent free houses. Still needed to get advice and a massive loan.🤯

Volhhg · 13/03/2023 13:04

Moonicorn · 13/03/2023 09:30

We do need to get more people back into work. Not working and claiming UC ‘because I want to pick my kids up from school’ or because ‘I’m depressed’ shouldn’t be an option.

Who will pick them up? There's only 24 after school places at my local primary with no space to expand in its Victorian building. It's obviously got a waiting list.It often closes at short notice as staff are sick and they have a hard time recruiting especially since Brexit. It also only helps those looking for employment between 8 - 6 am Mon to Fri which isn't particularly helpful to the demographic of those having to claim universal credit.

Lillygolightly · 13/03/2023 13:05

Moonicorn · 13/03/2023 12:56

Possibly shift work, where he works those 2 initial weeks. Not ideal but better than doing nothing.

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The ignorance here is just astounding!!! Honestly shocking!!

I would not call being 58 years of age and dealing with bipolar and medication to control its symptoms and then further dealing with the side effects of that medication doing nothing!!!

I am sure this posters brother would love nothing more that to have an effective medication that controlled him symptoms enough for him to be able to work and enjoy life, better yet I am sure he would rather not have bipolar disorder at all!!

KievsOutTheOven · 13/03/2023 13:06

Moonicorn · 13/03/2023 12:58

The thing is we all ‘care’ for our relatives and there’s a clear distinction between paid carers and family. Nursery are paid to look after my
child - I’m not. I can understand a ‘carer’s allowance’ where the relative’s needs are so great you cannot earn a wage, but if you can, why is it needed?

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When did I mention carers allowance? I did not get carers allowance. I was still a carer because I met the criteria for identifying as a carer (I helped him meet his basic needs) - I did this FOR FREE.

Had I not done this FOR FREE someone would need to do this FOR PAY.

You can’t compare caring for your own children to caring for an unwell relative. You chose to have children, my partner did not choose to have depression.

You have no understanding of what depression actually looks like. Again, I’m saying this as somebody who got ZERO government support through the two years where my partner was seriously unwell. We have never had a penny financial support beyond child benefit.

ASatisfyingThump · 13/03/2023 13:07

as someone whose had mental health issues, it shouldnt (apart from the most severe cases) be a case of "I've got mental health so I can't work" but should be "I've got mental health issues so I might need a short time off work while I receive intensive treatment of whatever kinds is best for me, followed by help back into work with appropriately regulated adjustments."

That's assuming the help is available, and in a timely manner. Waiting lists for mental health treatment are ridiculous, particularly if it's anything more complex than low level anxiety or depression.

LakieLady · 13/03/2023 13:08

Sendbobsandvagene · 13/03/2023 12:05

Disabled people aside, the “most vulnerable” are not people living in life assured tenancy council housing with council tax, service charges and rent fully covered by the tax payer. Receiving income support, full child benefit and access to foodbanks and all other myriad financial support there is for people who think they’re above working a lowbrow job or because “it wouldn’t pay them to work” (because they’d lose their benefits).

The “most vulnerable” are, for example, a couple who are:

Both working but only on £26k a year each
Have 1 or 2 children whose childcare costs at least £1,200 a month each
Privately renting in the south where they are probably paying upwards of £2k pcm rent for a small family home in a not great area.
Do not qualify for foodbanks
Do not qualify for universal credit
Do not qualify for Thames Water low income rates
Do not qualify for broadband low income rates
No subsidised school dinners
No “pupil premium” (free laptops, tablets and the like)
Do not qualify for cheaper entry into places like London Zoo, etc. that run schemes for those on universal credit
Are not able to save any money and will therefore never own and be at the whims of private landlords who can push the rent way up or decide to sell their BTLs (happening a lot these days). Bringing lots of disruption to family life and children’s schooling if having to move to ever cheaper areas to afford the rent.

The “most vulnerable” are not the work shirkers (I know a good handful) but families who are in low paid (but not low enough to qualify for UC) jobs. For example, a paramedic makes around £22k.

I think not:

Salaries are covered by the NHS Agenda for Change pay scales. Paramedic salaries start at Band 5, which ranges from £25,655 to £31,534. You'll move up to Band 6 (£32,306 and £39,027) after two years following a newly qualified paramedic pathway.

Paramedic salary

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 13/03/2023 13:08

purpleboy · 13/03/2023 09:51

The benefits system is not fit for purpose, it needs radical change, many (not all) people in this country really need to start taking responsibility for their life decisions rather than expecting the tax payer to pick up the bill.

Agree, and it's obvious that we need to start with the biggest welfare expenditure: pensions.

It's ridiculous that we pay individuals an amount of money (triple locked no less) every month, indefinitely once they reach a certain age. It's unsustainable and it's time we had a serious discussion about how we deal with all these people who failed to take responsibility for their life decisions and now expect an every shrinking pool of tax payers to pick up the bill.

purpleboy · 13/03/2023 13:09

Is it possible to pre-book places in nursery or after-school club before you ttc?

@LakieLady did you not consider what would happen should you not be able to get a place?

BenCoopersSupportWren · 13/03/2023 13:09

Moonicorn · 13/03/2023 12:58

The thing is we all ‘care’ for our relatives and there’s a clear distinction between paid carers and family. Nursery are paid to look after my
child - I’m not. I can understand a ‘carer’s allowance’ where the relative’s needs are so great you cannot earn a wage, but if you can, why is it needed?

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Nowhere did I state I claim carer’s allowance. I do not, because my wage is above the threshold. That does not make me any less of my husband’s carer.

You are that worst combination of person: ignorant of the lives of others and utterly lacking empathy when others’ challenges are brought to your attention. And no, I will not share the details of how limited my husband’s life has to be when I am not able to be with him physically because you are not interested in learning more about the realities of living with long-term disability or being an in-work carer; you’re looking to nit-pick and point-score.

LakieLady · 13/03/2023 13:09

Moonicorn · 13/03/2023 10:44

I just don’t believe that ‘mental health’ can be used as an excuse to live off the taxpayer for years. It has no pathology, unless the person is bordering on sectioning you only have their word to take for it. As PP said there’s no magic money tree. There has to be a line somewhere.

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Are you a PIP or WCA assessor by any chance?

That seems to be the line they take. Still, mustn't grumble, it keeps me in work winning all those appeals for my clients with MH issues.

malificent7 · 13/03/2023 13:10

I think Gary Lineker's comments about Nazi Germany were spot on regarding this government. People obviously think that the disabled are to blame.

Why not ask employers to increase wages and create more wfh opportunities?

Sendbobsandvagene · 13/03/2023 13:11

LakieLady · 13/03/2023 13:08

I think not:

Salaries are covered by the NHS Agenda for Change pay scales. Paramedic salaries start at Band 5, which ranges from £25,655 to £31,534. You'll move up to Band 6 (£32,306 and £39,027) after two years following a newly qualified paramedic pathway.

Paramedic salary

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LOL.

Thats the only thing you took from my post?

£22k for a paramedic was quoted on another thread here. But, mea culpa, it’s actually the princely sum of £26k.

LadyKenya · 13/03/2023 13:13

talkingdeadscot · 13/03/2023 10:21

Has everyone forgotten that Universal Credit and PIP are the benefits after the overhaul that was supposed to 'sort' everything out. This is the situation after the overhaul. Do we really need to overhaul the overhaul now?

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Yes, I think so. Too many people are still having to go through stressful, time consuming forms, and assessments for conditions that will never improve, some of them from birth. Why are people with lifelong conditions, which will likely only get worse with time, having to run the gauntlet of short term awards? It must be costing a fortune for all of this admin, assessment etc.

Mamamia7962 · 13/03/2023 13:13

Thebestway - I don't think there will be a state pension for future generations. I think they will have to rely on private ones.