To think people are very quick to forget the pandemic

[BelleMarionette]

Myself, and other junior doctors, worked hard on the covid wards, in appalling conditions. We didn't have decent PPE, and often had little to no relevant experience or training, as many were redeployed with little notice (in my case, 36 hours). Almost all of of us became sick, some very seriously so, and some even died. Many more were left struggling with our own mental health, suffering from PTSD, anxiety and depression.

We are now striking, due to pay erosion over the past 15 years. In real terms its around a 30% pay cut. It's difficult to live on what we are be being paid, especially with families to support.

I have seen an awful lot of negative comments about junior doctors on another thread. Aibu to think the public has been very quick to forget our contribution during the pandemic?

I would dearly love to be wrong and see support

Not sure what you mean by this or how it was a response to my comment?

This isn't about being 'heros'. I also hated all the 'front line' comments, equating the NHS to a war zone. It implied staff deaths were inevitable, which they shouldn't have been.

This is just about fair pay, for what is a difficult job.

So it's not about working conditions just purely about money

@BelleMarionette

Its always a hard job.

Which most people couldn't do. Most people can't even understand how difficult it is, hence the nonsense comments.

I fully support all NHS staff that are striking. I get paid a lot more than junior doctors for a job that is nowhere near as stressful, I work less hours, and I don't have people's lives in my hands. The right wing press and politicians have a lot to answer for. You fully deserve praise, support and an increase in pay and benefits in my opinion.

I hear you. However, it is important to take a stand because what happens the next time there is a pandemic. Better to have a plan than to be reactive. This is my humble opinion.

It's obviously about both, hence the mention of a difficult job. Better working conditions would help, but both need to be improved.

You are in a relatively well paid job though. You should recognise your relative privilege in that respect.

I fully support calls for reform concerning the working conditions though. This is the crux of the problem, and that badly affects patient care too.

Pay will improve when your skills do just like every job. What you need to be focusing on is better work conditions as this will actually improve things. You getting a payrise will make no difference to working conditions

I would like to believe that the majority of people support the junior doctors and understand why they have no choice but to strike. However, there are some who don't, and I'm sure you're right that a lot of people have already forgotten how we were applauding NHS workers every week during the pandemic. The very real personal risks that they were taking and the selfless sacrifices that they made.

I am deeply concerned about the likely impact of the strikes but I support the doctors and nurses for going out, because sadly, I think they have no choice. I reserve my rage about the situation for the government, which has treated our hardworking NHS staff so poorly.

My dd is planning to start a medicine degree later this year. Honestly, I find myself wishing that she would take another, easier route. I can only hope that the strikes now will prove to be a catalyst for much-needed change.

I haven’t forgotten but the harsh reality is we’re all (well many of us), are skint too.

Surely it will, if it helps to stop professionals from leaving the NHS. If there are lots of vacancies that the NHS can't fill, because health care professionals are leaving their professions or going abroad or whatever, that will inevitably impact on the workloads of those who are left behind trying to cover.

What would you accept though OP?

They are never going to give 26% not when the rest of the public sector and NHS has not been given anywhere near the 12-18% stated.

I agree with the right to strike but I also think unions have to be realistic and 26% isn't that

I don't think that you can blame the general public for being less than enthusiastic about the strikes.

Many people had loved ones that died alone during the pandemic and loved ones that died due to provision of care being seriously restricted because of the pandemic. Many people are still suffering due to unacceptably inadequate health provision. 2 friends and 2 partners of friends recently diagnosed with cancers too advanced to 'cure'.

It is very difficult to separate the health service from the people that work in it. That is the government's fault, HCP's vs patients is a good diversion for them.

I think that you and your colleagues were incredibly brave to continue going to work, particularly in the early days of the pandemic. I absolutely think that you should have a meaningful pay rise. The government should action it without digging their heels in. I feel like the general public don't have the stomach to join your fight. It is a difficult time for many people in this country, following on from a time that will take us all years to process.

Do people honestly think 30k is relatively well paid for being a doctor?

Really?

I appreciate its a training post with much higher earning potential but to say it's well paid just belies the ignorance of what's actually involved

Absolutely. I mentioned it on another thread too. Yet in my lifetime, noone has been able to sort out more appropriate working hours. It says a lot about those involved as it's blindingly obvious to some of us that working 72 hour shifts is pretty crap for public wellbeing.

The pay and potential is fine. The hours not. Sadly the public only ever really hear about money and these stupid comparisons with Pret staff, along with this nonsense about COVID does Dr's no favours whatsoever.

If drs are only in it for the money they shouldn't be drs. Doctors who actually care are very few and far between already. I'd rather drs have better working conditions so they don't burn out and can actually help patients to the best of their ability.

I think when there is a shortage of applicants to medical schools, I'll start to get worried. The reality is that junior doctors are basically the graduate positions in a career that will put them in the 1% of top earners. They are apparently the brightest and the best and I would expect they know the career path and salary when they start out on their university studies.

@TreadLight

Then you should be worried.

Applicants to medical school is fairly irrelevant when we can't fill posts

Solidarity with striking doctors.

MN is extraordinary. You will get threads telling you very earnestly that bankers need to be paid ridiculous bonuses (even after the taxpayer bailed them out) because otherwise they'll go work abroad, and yet also that public sector workers should be grateful for yearly pay cuts because they get more than someone who works in a supermarket.

You want talent, pay for talent. Presumably people wouldn't be happy with their medical needs being dealt with by someone with the same basic requirements needed to become a shop worker. It's such a stupid comparison.

Yanbu

I think, the thing is, when you are on 13k or whatever, 30k seems like a lot of money. Someone on 13k cannot fathom how someone on 30k could possibly be struggling.

I know when I moved from retail to teaching and my salary went from £13k to £21k; I felt loaded. Now, 10 years later, I could absolutely not survive on £21k, my salary has increased significantly beyond my starting salary and yet I’ve got less left over now than I did when I started teaching.

People live to their means. And it’s only fair that those in more skilled/demanding jobs should be paid more for their time than those in less skilled/demanding roles.

I agree with the right to strike but i am fed up with the "aren't we so wonderful but our jobs are so difficult" narrative. Joe public is to blame for a lot of it, we clapped every week but it was to show support not to worship you. Young Doctors and Teachers work hard but there are those that work bloody hard too without the pay and pension that Doctors and Teachers have. You went into the job knowing it was hard, so please less of the woe is me. You made your choices.

There are lots of us just struggling to pay the basics. I support junior Drs, but I think you have zero understanding of my situation.

I fully support the doctor’s strikes, stand firm.