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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think people are very quick to forget the pandemic

304 replies

BelleMarionette · 12/03/2023 19:19

Myself, and other junior doctors, worked hard on the covid wards, in appalling conditions. We didn't have decent PPE, and often had little to no relevant experience or training, as many were redeployed with little notice (in my case, 36 hours). Almost all of of us became sick, some very seriously so, and some even died. Many more were left struggling with our own mental health, suffering from PTSD, anxiety and depression.

We are now striking, due to pay erosion over the past 15 years. In real terms its around a 30% pay cut. It's difficult to live on what we are be being paid, especially with families to support.

I have seen an awful lot of negative comments about junior doctors on another thread. Aibu to think the public has been very quick to forget our contribution during the pandemic?

I would dearly love to be wrong and see support

OP posts:
Emma2023 · 14/03/2023 11:37

I hope they send him to prison and throw away the key, they won’t though. And some people actually think he’s a good man . Urgh 🤢🤢🤢🤢

CanYouSayDicksickle · 14/03/2023 11:42

@BelleMarionette I haven't forgotten! You guys deserve so much more.

@KievsOutTheOven Please don't compare the job teachers do to that of doctors saving lives...

malificent7 · 14/03/2023 11:53

Basically, this society is obsessed with money and individualism with very little social conscience. Therefore people vote Tory as " there's no such thing as society" and resent paying taxes for sick people as they perceive ill people as shirkers and a drain as is evident by some on mn.
Until it happens to them.

Original poster
BelleMarionette · 14/03/2023 12:20

malificent7 · 14/03/2023 11:53

Basically, this society is obsessed with money and individualism with very little social conscience. Therefore people vote Tory as " there's no such thing as society" and resent paying taxes for sick people as they perceive ill people as shirkers and a drain as is evident by some on mn.
Until it happens to them.

Sadly this is true.

I have given up on engaging with some posters who clearly have their own agendas, and are no resorting to insulting me.

People should see protecting the futures of doctors as their own though, as anyone can become sick, and if you do, it would be great if the doctors haven't all left to Australia or another career.

OP posts:
Cloudhoppingdancer · 14/03/2023 13:41

malificent7 · 14/03/2023 11:53

Basically, this society is obsessed with money and individualism with very little social conscience. Therefore people vote Tory as " there's no such thing as society" and resent paying taxes for sick people as they perceive ill people as shirkers and a drain as is evident by some on mn.
Until it happens to them.

I think people are often morally neutral overall but have been brow beaten into a kind of sceptical survival mode. They pay taxes but naturally they want to eat and be warm and have a roof over their head and see the doctor when they're ill. There isn't much room to worry about the niceties because hardly anyone is having an easy ride.

MarshaBradyo · 14/03/2023 13:44

malificent7 · 14/03/2023 11:53

Basically, this society is obsessed with money and individualism with very little social conscience. Therefore people vote Tory as " there's no such thing as society" and resent paying taxes for sick people as they perceive ill people as shirkers and a drain as is evident by some on mn.
Until it happens to them.

I don’t think it’s entirely true. Taxes are quite high atm but looking at pandemic there were huge sacrifices across so many groups.

People can argue they’d like to pay more tax which is fine though.

KievsOutTheOven · 14/03/2023 15:54

CanYouSayDicksickle · 14/03/2023 11:42

@BelleMarionette I haven't forgotten! You guys deserve so much more.

@KievsOutTheOven Please don't compare the job teachers do to that of doctors saving lives...

I wasn’t? I was comparing the fact that we went on strike and got our pay rise, and that I hoped junior doctors got their pay rise too?

JenniferBooth · 14/03/2023 16:52

The comments

twitter.com/TheBMA/status/1635577217789878278?s=20

Mew2 · 14/03/2023 21:02

Yes I totally support the strikes...
My sister qualified in the 2000s and had a significantly higher starting salary (junior house officers were housed for free in hospitals).... life on the wards has only got worse not better since then- with what seems like alot less staff on the ground to do the same job. And very stressed drs . I have conversations regularly with them as they don't understand what I do or what information they need to give me

However I was disappointed today went to go and say hi to the striking drs and they had gone home before 2pm ...

KievsOutTheOven · 14/03/2023 21:09

Mew2 · 14/03/2023 21:02

Yes I totally support the strikes...
My sister qualified in the 2000s and had a significantly higher starting salary (junior house officers were housed for free in hospitals).... life on the wards has only got worse not better since then- with what seems like alot less staff on the ground to do the same job. And very stressed drs . I have conversations regularly with them as they don't understand what I do or what information they need to give me

However I was disappointed today went to go and say hi to the striking drs and they had gone home before 2pm ...

And? They are on strike, they have no obligation to stay. When I was on strike; I didn’t even go to the picket line. I enjoyed a long lie and then went out for a nice day with my children. I went to a rally on one of the days too. It is effectively an unpaid day off.

Lingfield01 · 14/03/2023 21:57

I’m sorry but I do not believe that doctors were in much more danger than supermarket workers etc during covid. Hundreds of people go in and out of supermarkets in the course of a day (many of which who will have been carrying the virus). I got sick of NHS staff being treated like saints. As far as I was concerned anyone who was keeping the country running were crucial ‘front line workers’. I had to go for an MRI scan during the pandemic and the hospital I attended was virtually deserted!
And don’t even get me started on the lazy and rude nurses I encountered!
Covid was only ever a danger for the elderly who should have been protected.
Doctor and nurses strikes are putting peoples lives at risk.

Tandora · 15/03/2023 10:24

BelleMarionette · 14/03/2023 12:20

Sadly this is true.

I have given up on engaging with some posters who clearly have their own agendas, and are no resorting to insulting me.

People should see protecting the futures of doctors as their own though, as anyone can become sick, and if you do, it would be great if the doctors haven't all left to Australia or another career.

Show quote history

Or did you give up engaging because I offered some “objective figures” that don’t support your narrative?

VoiceOfCommonSense · 15/03/2023 13:49

BelleMarionette · 12/03/2023 19:19

Myself, and other junior doctors, worked hard on the covid wards, in appalling conditions. We didn't have decent PPE, and often had little to no relevant experience or training, as many were redeployed with little notice (in my case, 36 hours). Almost all of of us became sick, some very seriously so, and some even died. Many more were left struggling with our own mental health, suffering from PTSD, anxiety and depression.

We are now striking, due to pay erosion over the past 15 years. In real terms its around a 30% pay cut. It's difficult to live on what we are be being paid, especially with families to support.

I have seen an awful lot of negative comments about junior doctors on another thread. Aibu to think the public has been very quick to forget our contribution during the pandemic?

I would dearly love to be wrong and see support

I’m so sorry. I hope at the end of the day you were still able to make TikToks 💐

VoiceOfCommonSense · 15/03/2023 13:50

Lingfield01 · 14/03/2023 21:57

I’m sorry but I do not believe that doctors were in much more danger than supermarket workers etc during covid. Hundreds of people go in and out of supermarkets in the course of a day (many of which who will have been carrying the virus). I got sick of NHS staff being treated like saints. As far as I was concerned anyone who was keeping the country running were crucial ‘front line workers’. I had to go for an MRI scan during the pandemic and the hospital I attended was virtually deserted!
And don’t even get me started on the lazy and rude nurses I encountered!
Covid was only ever a danger for the elderly who should have been protected.
Doctor and nurses strikes are putting peoples lives at risk.

I agree with everything you said 👍

mn29 · 15/03/2023 13:58

I support all the doctors, nurses, paramedics striking. You're not valued enough and clearly people have forgotten, but I have not and I'm sure others haven't either. I never have and never will vote Tory due to their disdain for public services and the importance of workers within them. (I have a cushy well-paid office job so this is not about me but the needs of society and those who perform such vital, under-appreciated roles).

OnOldOlympus · 15/03/2023 18:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ProfessorLayton1 · 16/03/2023 07:42

Doctors have to start treating their jobs as any other jobs. Finish on time, get paid for the work you do, stop doing things out of good will, refuse to work when the conditions are not safe for you to work. You will have not have a pilot take off his plane when the conditions are not right. When you have lives of others in your hand, that's exactly what we should be doing.
You have one junior doctor looking after 20-30 patients and more at night.. unsafe for the patients! No one listens.. to your concerns! Now you also know what some people think and it does not matter what you say, people do not change their opinion.

As said previously NHS is broken, have been working in a senior role for more than a decade and it is the worst I have seen.. It really saddens me to say this but go and work where you are valued. It is simply not just about the money. My junior texted me at 3:00 am last night apologising that he can't come to ward round this morning as his wife is in A and E with emergency, but will support the wards in the afternoon depending on what they find. He has small children too.. No need to show such commitment to your work, it is a job after all! You may be a high earner sometime in 10-15 years time, just put up with things for the time being, see your physical and mental health deteriorate, have your relationships break as you move around the country... just shut up and carry on!

Original poster
BelleMarionette · 16/03/2023 13:46

ProfessorLayton1 · 16/03/2023 07:42

Doctors have to start treating their jobs as any other jobs. Finish on time, get paid for the work you do, stop doing things out of good will, refuse to work when the conditions are not safe for you to work. You will have not have a pilot take off his plane when the conditions are not right. When you have lives of others in your hand, that's exactly what we should be doing.
You have one junior doctor looking after 20-30 patients and more at night.. unsafe for the patients! No one listens.. to your concerns! Now you also know what some people think and it does not matter what you say, people do not change their opinion.

As said previously NHS is broken, have been working in a senior role for more than a decade and it is the worst I have seen.. It really saddens me to say this but go and work where you are valued. It is simply not just about the money. My junior texted me at 3:00 am last night apologising that he can't come to ward round this morning as his wife is in A and E with emergency, but will support the wards in the afternoon depending on what they find. He has small children too.. No need to show such commitment to your work, it is a job after all! You may be a high earner sometime in 10-15 years time, just put up with things for the time being, see your physical and mental health deteriorate, have your relationships break as you move around the country... just shut up and carry on!

I do think the goal of the new contract is to treat doctors as hourly workers.

The NHS demands so much Goodwill. For example, I offered to cover a last minute uncovered shift, but was then told it would be unpaid. I had to decline as I can't afford to do this. We are expected to stay late regularly and forgo any chance to have lunch. I am genuinely thinking of other options, but it's hard to think what to do. Many go to Australia and have a great time, but it's not something I personally want to do.

OP posts:
Biker47 · 16/03/2023 15:15

JenniferBooth · 14/03/2023 16:52

What an embarrassing advert, the person/people at the BMA who authorised that needs talking to.

MarshaBradyo · 16/03/2023 15:41

There’s a bit of a disconnect between that advert and recent pension changes.

I doubt Pret workers are facing pension issues other than not having enough.

I’m ok with the change if it means more consultants stay on but not many workers reach a limit that would worry them in same way.

roarfeckingroarr · 16/03/2023 15:57

You did your job. I thought the clapping was bizarre. Now you want more money which may well be valid, I don't have a strong opinion either way, but it has nothing to do with the pandemic.

MarshaBradyo · 16/03/2023 16:05

It’d be interesting to see that advert at retirement age using same people as comparison.

Cloudhoppingdancer · 16/03/2023 17:57

Biker47 · 16/03/2023 15:15

What an embarrassing advert, the person/people at the BMA who authorised that needs talking to.

Show quote history

It's a very incomplete statement to the point of lying by omission. Even before you consider that pension and salary growth need to be taken into account, it is not even the case that any junior doctor earns that sum.

The people at the helm of this strike seem to be militant 20 somethings with quite extreme ideology that I don't expect is representative of the majority of junior doctors.

Cloudhoppingdancer · 16/03/2023 17:59

And yes, the recent pension changes that allow consultants to have a protected pension pot to the tune of almost 2 million is not something that a Pret employee could aspire to. There were more credible ways to make the point that didn't involve snobbish comparative aspersions about the hard working people who serve our coffee.

Cloudhoppingdancer · 16/03/2023 18:03

BelleMarionette · 16/03/2023 13:46

I do think the goal of the new contract is to treat doctors as hourly workers.

The NHS demands so much Goodwill. For example, I offered to cover a last minute uncovered shift, but was then told it would be unpaid. I had to decline as I can't afford to do this. We are expected to stay late regularly and forgo any chance to have lunch. I am genuinely thinking of other options, but it's hard to think what to do. Many go to Australia and have a great time, but it's not something I personally want to do.

Show quote history

That's not going to be fixed by a bigger pay packet, though. How many times have GPs said (and demonstrated) that there is no exorbitant amount of money that will persuade them that it's worth it within a broken system? A higher salary is not going to protect your mental health from moral injury.

How is Australia managing to pay their doctors and provide better working conditions? What level of student debt are Australian trained doctors carrying?