To think people are very quick to forget the pandemic

[BelleMarionette]

Myself, and other junior doctors, worked hard on the covid wards, in appalling conditions. We didn't have decent PPE, and often had little to no relevant experience or training, as many were redeployed with little notice (in my case, 36 hours). Almost all of of us became sick, some very seriously so, and some even died. Many more were left struggling with our own mental health, suffering from PTSD, anxiety and depression.

We are now striking, due to pay erosion over the past 15 years. In real terms its around a 30% pay cut. It's difficult to live on what we are be being paid, especially with families to support.

I have seen an awful lot of negative comments about junior doctors on another thread. Aibu to think the public has been very quick to forget our contribution during the pandemic?

I would dearly love to be wrong and see support

With the low mood sadly there will be career changers before they have even got the chance to get started.

Doctors are voting with their feet and moving to Australia etc. We can’t appoint doctors easily, consultant posts etc unfilled and we need to urgently build a resilient work force which includes paying junior doctors properly (or they go)

Where would we be without Doctors and Nurses....I fully support you OP

But if a retail worker goes on strike for 3 days it doesn't lead to people unnecessarily suffering or dying.

I'm well over 5 years post qualification, but I'm not earning that.

Yes, it is about pay and conditions. There are more poor conditions not even mentioned, eg how the NHS generally treats sick and pregnant staff, which is completely illegal often. For example, telling pregnant women that they won't make the adjustments specified by occupational health, or telling staff with disabilities that time off for their treatment is unpaid. Refusing to allow carers leave. The list could go on.

www.theguardian.com/world/video/2020/mar/20/nurse-in-tears-coronavirus-panic-buying-leaves-shelves-empty-food-video

There is a lot, lot more to consider when we talk about covid “risk” than just exposure.

For example, factory workers are generally from a lower socioeconomic background than junior doctors; which increased their risk. People from less affluent backgrounds are also less likely to trust the government and were less compliant with covid restrictions; and it’s impossible to separate the risk from occupational exposure to social exposure.

Speaking specifically about teachers; as I’ve looked it up previously; we were one of the groups most at risk of catching covid; but our mortality wasn’t significantly higher - again; generally a compliant cohort from a more affluent background. The risk of covid was higher not because we were on the front line; but because we were in contact with huge amounts of people with no PPE/social distancing/masks etc, unlike most professions.

All of this is completely irrelevant to how much doctors should be paid though; and I think it’s important that we separate covid from ongoing discussions about pay and conditions.

That's not how student loans work. The amount you pay back is only a percentage of what you earn above a certain amount. I'll repeat - my take home pay in 5 days was what my brother took home in 3. So that's student loans accounted for. My take-home pay is easily enough to live on. I still think doctors' salaries should be higher.

So did supermarket workers, when GPs moved over to phone calls only supermarket shelf stackers were rubbing shoulders with every sneezy coughy person going to the store and they never had any ppe at all.

plandemic started at 2020, in my local surgery gps have just now returned to face to face appointments-lol.

in other countries i have family in doctors and dentists continued to see patients as normal, no idea why in the UK patients surgeries got cancelled,no routine bloodtests were done,millions did not get diagnosed with diseases needing urgent treatment, people could not see dentists and now the result is excess deaths higher than 2020/2021/2022.

doctors have let the taxpayers who pay their salaries down big time

@BelleMarionette

None of those jobs were as dangerous, due to less exposure. It is obvious that those who were working on wards full of covid patients, with less PPE than a dinner lady, and often participating in aerosol generating procedures, were the most at risk. Obviously, the above jobs are important, but it's like comparing apples and oranges.*

Sorry but that comment really pisses me off! FWIW I support the strikes. But you were not the only ones put at significant risk! I'm a carer! You had PPE long before we did. Many of us were trapped working in care homes full of dying covid patients that the NHS had discharged. We didn't have any support. We didn't have the medical training to help people. We didn't have the support of a team environment or anyone to help us process what was happening.

As I said i support the strikes but using covid as an excuse or suggesting you were the only ones put at risk is rubbish.

Oh and I'm due cancer surgery in the morning! Waiting to hear if there will be enough doctor cover for it to go ahead!*

Agree. And they are continuing to let us down.

I think people WANT to forget it, because for many, it was a really difficult time - quite debilitating and horrific for some. Loneliness and poverty for many, and childrens education, careers, and uni degrees affected by it. Along with many businesses closing down, and many relationships breaking down.

If people are 'very quick' to forget it, maybe it's because they want to forget it.

My dad was a carer through covid and had a bag in his work prepared to be stuck there indefinitely (as in, for weeks on end) if anyone tested positive. Due to the nature of his job; masks and ppe were not possible; and his work was made incredibly difficult due to covid (due to the demographic and conditions of his patients and the impact lockdown had on their daily routines)

There was a covid outbreak; my dad wasn’t on shift when it happened so fortunately wasn’t impacted. However he did most likely infect his household with covid as everyone else was furloughed or shielding, and two members of his household ended up in hospital.

Carers deserve pay rises.

I would have imagined that it was far worse for the dying people and the families separated from them but it’s all about you of course.

Such a ridiculous, small minded comment.

The doctors & nurses were with the dying. They held their hands so they didn't die alone. They watched lots of people die every day in front of them. They had to make the phone calls. And watch colleagues fall ill and die too. All for a fucking clap & a bang on a saucepan once a week.

Grow up! There is no comparison between retail workers and junior doctors.

@HubertTheGoat a doctor is simply more skilled than you. Fact. They should be paid more. How can you compare a doctor to a teacher?

But, but, that's their job!

To care for sick and dying people.

Doctors surely know that?
Doctors being precious about exposure to infections, god give me strength🙄

I support all striking workers, including doctors, but this comment is simply wrong.

DD works at a SEND school. Every day she works very closely with profoundly disabled children, without PPE. She has been responsible for their personal care and administering medications etc. I've had covid nine times now - I'm immunosuppressed and therefore I'm very careful re hygiene, avoiding busy places and so on. And every time it comes into the house, it's been doing the rounds at school.

It's not like comparing apples and oranges at all and you suggesting it is makes you sound a bit arrogant, to be honest.

Yup i was high risk pregnant bleeding heavily for 5 hours before i was allowed to go to the MAU, i was the only patient there, consultant apologized said it was the hospital policy that the patient has to wait 4+ hours before she is seen, that under normal
circumstances i would have been called in straight away.

the way uk handled covid was pathetic, all of it- starting with peple clapping like seals , wearing flimsy,soggy masks that were found to fail 100 percent in stopping viruses and when medical workers were hiding away from all the patients, even those who didnt even have any sign of a viral illness. Unless you had symptoms of covid and you were up for testing (cash for the go surgery)or the vaccine (again cash for the go surgery and a bonus possibility)- they were not interested.

Gp surgery* autocorrect not helping lol

Yes factory and warehouse/distribution workers, working in poorly ventilated, crowded environments.

You have every bit of support from me.

It wasn't until I had a friend training to be a doctor, did I realise that their part time hours were way more than most peoples full time hours. So comparing salaries is irrelevant.

Also reading Adam Kay's This Is Going To Hurt, should be a must for anyone wanting to use an NHS hospital. If even half what he wrote is true, then you deserve every penny and more of what you are striking for.

And I did worry for you all during COVID, so much so that I bought supplies for those working in my local covid wards. Please know that many do still value you hugely.

Are you vaccinated by any chance, in my circle i have noticed people who took vaccines seems to regularly test covid positive, another one who i talked to today, ill just now-2 vaccines and 6th time positive.

I don't support the strikes

I'm disgusted and yet sadly not surprised that you received this appalling treatment. What a traumatic thing you went through and I genuinely hope all is well with you and baby now.