To think people are very quick to forget the pandemic

[BelleMarionette]

Myself, and other junior doctors, worked hard on the covid wards, in appalling conditions. We didn't have decent PPE, and often had little to no relevant experience or training, as many were redeployed with little notice (in my case, 36 hours). Almost all of of us became sick, some very seriously so, and some even died. Many more were left struggling with our own mental health, suffering from PTSD, anxiety and depression.

We are now striking, due to pay erosion over the past 15 years. In real terms its around a 30% pay cut. It's difficult to live on what we are be being paid, especially with families to support.

I have seen an awful lot of negative comments about junior doctors on another thread. Aibu to think the public has been very quick to forget our contribution during the pandemic?

I would dearly love to be wrong and see support

When there was pressure for retail staff to wear masks there were many posts from healthcare workers on here (or people claiming to be) saying "well we have to wear them so why shouldnt you." all equal then wasnt it?! And no amount of pointing out that supermarket workers didnt choose a profession where masks featured would sway the argument

Totally support you OP. Junior doctors deserve to be paid well given the expense of studies and the hard work involved in your profession. Not 'anyone' is capable of becoming a doctor. The hours are long and hard and that should be recognised. I agree people have short term memories and forget how important the medical profession was to us just a short time ago (and still is). I sadly have been advising my own child to steer clear of becoming a doctor. It's hard work and just not paid well enough. It's a thankless occupation.

As an aside, I'm not understanding peoples comparisons to other professions. You can't compare the hours and cost people put into becoming a doctor to say a teacher or so other profession?

I support junior Dr's in striking but flip side 26% isn't achievable so when will it stop genuinely? As the govt is never going to give that or buckle to that sort of level as they would then have to so it for everyone else.

I would be more supportive if what was being asked is realistic and achievable do that strikes can end sooner and lives aren't at risk.

FWIW my profession has just voted to go on strike.....our pay rise was 1%!

The pandemic isn't over. This was posted by a director of the WHO yesterday.

twitter.com/mvankerkhove/status/1634485371785338882?t=zrFBmvg08gOlZxh7fO7C-g&s=19

I think a lot of people have a kind of PTSD about COVID and like pretending it never happened/ hate discussing it. I've seen even at my work fellow HCPs change the subject , it was a very painful time for a lot people and they don't want to be reminded of it.

I compared it to my teacher salary on pg1 and said I can easily afford to live on my teacher salary so saying you can't live on a doctor's salary is ridiculous. I don't expect to be paid the same as a doctor, obviously. My brother and his consultant partner are always pleading poverty though which I just don't understand - they must be in the top few percent of earners and don't have a big mortgage.

Absolutely this.

You’re not wrong OP. I work in a hospital - admin support, and have seen first hand the sacrifices many of the nurses and doctors made. Many of my colleagues moved out of their homes for months to try and protect their families - this was perfectly acceptable because ‘they knew the job when they took it’. They worked with shit PPE and as they weren’t with their families could work extra shifts and again this was great because it served a purpose. Then they were told
take the vaccination, if you don’t it’s because you’re shit and don’t care about patients and only yourselves. Now the working conditions for them has deteriorated more and the aggression and violence I’ve seen them out up with is awful, like they are having fun with a 7 Hour wait. I don’t think the public really do get it because understandably patients are having a shit time too and they are focussed on poor health and it’s impact. Sadly for many clinicians their health and well-being is wearing thing and the pressure and expectation placed on them is ridiculous, there is not let up. You walk in and people are shouting and angry and that’s pretty much how it stays with queues of people walking through the doors. It’s a really awful time all round and the pandemic seems to be long forgotten.

@itsjustnotok The vaccine mandate was insane. They took it further with care home workers.

@JenniferBooth totally agree. What they did to carers was bloody appalling and they are another group of workers who were treated appallingly in the pandemic and after.

You walk in and people are shouting and angry and that’s pretty much how it stays with queues of people walking through the doors

This behaviour is unacceptable but people were fed a diet of " lockdowns will protect the NHS" and in many cases lost jobs and homes because of it. Now they are finding out it didnt protect the NHS at all and are understandably angry.

It’s two different things though that your talking about.

I support your strike but I’m a foster carer and I get paid peanuts. I can’t strike. It’s difficult .

I am with you OP. I’m not a doctor but have shared flats with junior doctors and understand how all encompassing it is. Your pay should reflect your skills and time 💕

Do you think Dr's have no empathy? Do you think Dr's didn't also lose family?

Ridiculous statement to make, and irrelevant to the payrise. It's not a race to the bottom. I think it's fairly fucking obvious that managing people dying day on day, caring for them is traumatic.

And yes it's hollow words if you support the NHS but aren't prepared to support payrises/improved conditions

Improved condition for Dr's/nurses is also improved conditions for patients.

I think ALL medical staff within the NHS should be paid better, then you'd probably find less staff turnover, therefore less need for agencies and bank staff which cost a bomb to procure x

Recently I've had more encounters with medical staff than I would have liked, and have been treated amazingly despite apparent staff shortages. Without these people, a lot more would have died during the pandemic.

Why not put the NHS back in to the position where people are scrambling for jobs because it's decent pay? Surely the knock on effect would benefit the masses? X

What pandemic?

In 2020, no respiratory disease virus or viruses (the postulated SARS-CoV-2 included) caused any anomaly (total or incremental) in all-cause mortality.

www.ratical.org/PandemicParallaxView/Rancourt-on-COVID.html

Retail staff don't train for 5+ years so the comparison is not valid!

None of those jobs were as dangerous, due to less exposure.

Are you saying that you think that whether a particular sector or job gets pay increases should be based on what that job was like during the height of the pandemic rather than what it's like now, or what it's like generally?

retail staff were only equal when it came to wearing masks 🤔

I also disagree that supermarket workers, teachers, factory workers were quite the same as the frontline doctors/nurses. There is obviously risk, but its not managing acutely unwell dying patients at levels that are unprecedented, and quite horrific.

And most of the industries mentioned are private industries, who's payrises are not set by the government or in anyway related to junior doctors pay.

Yes it would appear that way. Selective memory - as though it never happened. Forget that we are now experiencing the aftermath in many different and often individual ways. As I have stated before, the clapping has stopped. It's your problem now.

@HubertTheGoat but a doctor is going to face 5 plus years of tuition to pay for and on 30k or even 40k things would be incredibly tight.

Thank you.

Absolutely, it has horrific for the families. No one could have been involved in this situation and not have felt that.

As a professional, I tried my up most best to care for those dying, and update their families, in difficult circumstances.

Now, people are criticising us for wanting a living wage.. and criticising me personally for my grammar.

@BelleMarionette I have absolute sympathy with your strike, but feel you are focusing on the wrong issues
yes of course your pay has been eroded but 5 years post qualification Drs are on 50 k plus shift/rota/hard to fill payments, that isn’t going to get you public sympathy, but the other issues should do so, eg junior doctors entering jobs where the rotas are set for the entire year, so no control over their holidays or ability to have time off with their partner if they happen to be at the same trust. The appalling and outdated way in which consultants speak to trainees, would not be tolerated in any other profession.
and the covid issue is understated, newly qualified medics were chucked onto wards in april 2020 with no induction, several months before they expected to be in positions of making decisions with folk dying left right and centre. The retention of junior doctors is a massive problem