To tell you that a newly qualified doctor only earns £29k?

[Drstrike]

Doctors now leave medical school after 5/6 gruelling years of study - with £85k of student debt.

First year post-qualification is £29k, rising to £33k the following year. Then things stagnate around £40k whilst in specialty training.

The first year post-qualification is more supervised. But you are still the first doctor to be bleeped if one of your ward patients starts bleeding post-op, falls and hits their head, has chest pain etc. and you are the one to initiate management then contact your consultant to let them know. You are still covering wards overnight with seniors at a distance. You are still prescribing medications, ordering scans involving radiation, explaining plans to patients and families. You are still a fully qualified doctor - just not with full registration.

This salary is based on a 40-48 hour full time week depending on rota. That means you can be "part time" working 40hrs a week in a job like surgery.

It takes 5/6 years of medical school, 2 years of foundation training, 3 years of core training and 3 years of higher specialty training to become a consultant. That's a commitment of 13 years, generally from the age of 18.

During this time doctors have to pay for their own progression exams (£500-£1000 each).

There are out of hours premia for nights/weekends on top, but in specialties like psychiatry and GP only basic is earnt.

Does this shock you?

It's madness. Meanwhile you can work in banking / IT / social media and earn a fortune.

Sorry but the old trope of if you don't pay there will be none, is as old as the hills and it's all bollocks.

Let them all go, I'd rather have people do the job because they care and want to make a difference rather than fill their pockets. May be every other profession should walk out and see how long the doctors last then.

Their pay has fallen far behind, why is this acceptable? By doing that, you demoralise a workforce who, eventually, don’t want to do it.

Let’s be positive, not fall for the faux economics of this government and invest.

Get rid of the NHS. Privatise health care. Pay doctors and nurses private business rates.
scrap NI and have individuals paying for health insurance. Have patients seen within weeks and health issues dealt with quickly.

I don’t know why we are clinging on to this NHS madness. DH and I pay nearly £800 a month between us, towards National Insurance. We’d pay a lot less for private health insurance and be seen quicker, even if we are paying for our one child’s insurance too.

Actually, I do know why we are clinging on to the NHS, because so many people can’t afford health insurance because pay is so poor. So people who earn more subsidise people who don’t earn enough. Everyone is kept down and we all have to suffer waiting times. The government can then provide a substandard service and pay professionals peanuts compared to what they are expected to do.

@Lookwhostalking99 they can care AND want to be paid fairly. It's not about them wanting to 'line their pockets'. Maybe they're fed up of having to work overtime to pay the mortgage and hardly spending any time with their own families.

I'm not pitting paramedics against junior doctors, don't be silly. Just saying that I would rather see them compensated properly first as I think their conditions are worse.

Sorry OP but you come across as a condescending twit. The way you look down on others is not a good look.

What like a majority of the population of the UK. The sooner they realise they are not special the better.

@Drstrike I think you are very brave posting this and the cesspit of comments are sadly showing you just what the general population thinks of doctors. I am a junior Dr, albeit with 6 years experience so not that junior even, and know not a single Dr who is not eagerly thinking of an exit plan. These people don't realise that their "beloved NHS" is built on the goodwill of people like you and me and that goodwill is wearing extremely thin post pandemic.

I've been horrified by things I have seen in NHS hospitals. I am extremely worried for my family and looking at private healthcare. Let these people have their shitty, 2nd rate healthcare system with attitudes like this. All you can do is look after you and your family and plan your escape. I truly believe the system is broken.

That's a recipe for exploitation. It's why nurses and teachers used to be paid what was basically pocket money (and to some extent are still underpaid) - because women should naturally care about the sick, and children, and money is a grubby subject that doesn't belong in the same sentence as 'vocation'.

I have a problem with this attitude.

I believe that people who work hard, regardless of their job, deserve to be compensated fairly. But, naturally some jobs require additional training, time, commitment and result in higher workloads, stress levels and responsibility. The people who do these jobs, deserve to be paid more - and are right to complain when they are not fairly paid.

That doesn’t mean they are the only ones who should be able to ask for better pay and conditions. Anyone can. So rather than tell them to put up and shut up, I’d rather we all support each other, to raise the standards of living in the UK, ensuring the people who go to work everyday and provide a much needed service, are fairly rewarded for their time and expertise.

@Lookwhostalking99 but they are special. They're saving lives. It's a completely different ball game to the majority of the uk so that's a ridiculous comparison. Nhs staff are not being paid enough or treated fairly despite sacrificing so much of themselves.
You don't see the sheer personal sacrifice that goes on behind the scenes.

Can get a HGV license in a few days and be on way more than that though. Companies will happily take new passes with the driver deficit. Can then get your operator's license and make a considerable amount more.

Ok, so some of them stay. Probably not the best or the brightest. Good luck with your oncology or your quadruple bypass when qualified doctors have flown off to a country where they can maximize the money their training should entitle them to.

The scorched earth argument is not rational.

'Let them all go...' is cutting off your own nose to spite your face.

Doctors used to sign a Hippocratic Oath. Nowadays they should sign a Hypocritical Oath.

Exactly. And a f-tonne of HGV drivers are going to be pretty useless when we are all needing cancer care and heart valve transplants.

Who do you see when you are I'll @Florenz ? Can't be a doctor as you think they are all useless.

They will look for someone, anyone, who is in their job purely for the love of it.

No and you obviously do not have a clue how many people depend on other professions to keep them alive and healthy, without realising it or even caring. Tip for you it's not just about people in hospitals' and medical care.

You obviously also don't see the sacrifice that goes on with numerous other professional job that go unseen to keep the world turning and keeping you safe. They are millions of other people doing just as important roles, that prevent people dying and alive that don't go crowing about it, demanding more money.

And how do you think hospitals will get their equipment without a logistics function? 🤔

Apparently brexit cost us 4000 doctors whilst there was a 100,000 driver deficit last time I checked.

Actually, apologies for that snarky post. I thought you were being a smartass but rereading your post you're saying that the pay is part of the issue I think.

I’m not saying HGV driver aren’t important. They are.

But doctors are important too and we don’t want them all leaving to become better paid HGV drivers do we.

Exactly, lets see how these doctors cope with no farmers, no HGV drivers or people to mend the roads and maintain the railways. According to the OP the people who provide us clean water and remove our sewerage and waste are below them.

The list just literally goes on and on.

Dh is a GP and can afford to live on working 2 days/week. Yes he had his share of stress but as a GP, not a junior doctor. All gps in his practice work part-time

I don't think they're useless at all, I think they're greedy. Doctors earn decent money, more than most people at the start of their career, a LOT more by the end of their career.

It's funny how the people who normally bleat about how "inequality" and how terrible it is, think that Doctors deserve even more money, we need to compete with the wages they can earn in the US, Middle-East and Australia, and it's everyone else who needs to stump up, because Doctors deserve it.