Aibu to worry when jobs that sound so important have such a low salary?

[merrigorownd]

I'm currently job hunting, so get a few mailshots, and have an alert set up for analytical jobs in the civil service. I'm often surprised at how low the salaries are for job titles that sound strategically important for the running of our country. This is just a random example.

The range shown is for someone based in Darlington, but I clicked through to the detail and the London range was only £3k higher. I know the cost of living is lower in Darlington than in London, and that £50k is relatively a high wage in that area, but if I was a Darlington-based economist with the required level of competence to lead a team of 15 people in advising Government ministers on national policy, I think I might be well aware of my ability to earn much more with a different employer.

Have you thought of moving within HE? You'd probably get a higher salary and similar benefits, particularly at some of the London unis

@brainstories568 I'm already at the top of my pay grade at one of the central London unis, but yes, a couple of others that are wealthier institutions are starting to do market supplements so I'm applying. Some CS departments are offering market supplements too, so I'm also applying there. I like my job and lifestyle, so aiming for a horizontal move to somewhere with higher pay and similar/better benefits.

I think analytics of treasury data is quite important as presumably economic decision making is based on those results. Well, if you had a government that followed logic that is! Your comment made me think of something interesting though - I suppose the ratio of 'important' (like caring and teaching, both woefully underpaid and underappreciated in my view for how critical they are to the economy, never mind people's lives) to 'unimportant' (hate that word but serves its purpose here, not crucial) like, working in a chip shop has tipped over the years with the extensive automation of 'unimportant' jobs that don't need to be done by a human being or are no longer needed due to technology/societal advances. Which means we are left with this sort of 'what's important' in-fighting that tends to be manual labour vs office work. When really we need to recognise that the guy working in cyber security in a comfy 9-5 WFH job making sure no-one can get into military databases by working on his one section of the system he has expertise in, does have importance, just in a different way to a doctor. But it's a relatively new set of circumstances, so it's hard to shore it up against someone working end of life care. (If anyone reading this knows of any further reading on this pls let me know!)

Makes sense... Are you at UoL or non UoL? Without being too outing much, I've generally found that my central London HE institution pays higher than UoL, particularly my department which is how/why we retain so many staff, but yeah, getting to the top of your band is an issue, particularly when there either isn't anywhere obvious to go to and/or the next grade job isn't worth the stress of being paid an extra couple of grand pre tax at the most :)

Big thank you. Yes, I'm in the big FB group for teachers wanting to leave which is where I've seen lots said about the CS wanting teachers. But here is the first time I've seen the negatives of the CS laid out so I was curious.

Very true about what I want from the job. After teaching, I do want more flexibility at this point in my life (DS about to start school). I'm not bothered about free drinks or parties! So I'll continue to explore CS roles.

Thanks for your thoughts.

The civil service is such a weird place, it attracts a certain type of person with those salaries. I joined from private sector and was gobsmacked at what I would consider relatively junior, inexperienced people having such responsibility and influence. Then there are spads in their mid 20’s having only worked at think tanks advising the PM on business….

Although SPADs aren't mainstream civil servants, that's kind of the point of them.

They are political appointees.

Thank you for the link to that auction site, I’m busy planning my bids! The sapphire bracelet would lift all my navy blue outfits nicely.

Having made it through the 1st sift, I'm rather proud that I only got 14% for the CS online 'personality test'. It was such bollocks I'm glad I ain't good at it. Apparently I can practice and learn how to understand bollocks in order to pass....er, no thanks....

Anyone here got a lower score?

@TheHateIsNotGood I've not done a personality test (well except for a leadership programme) I've done a situational judgement test a couple of times which was fine, I didn't realise they did personally test on recruitment campaigns, how can they measure them with a score?

Apologies namejump, i meant situational judgement test, which to me is a personality test. The test had nothing to do with the job but struck me as a bit of gossipy, he said/she said nonsense test, which I tend to ignore in real life. Hence my very poor score.

Is that a low salary? I think that's pretty decent actually.

@TheHateIsNotGood ah ok, I somehow nail them, I scored higher than 99% of G7s in one campaign, it was about how you handle certain challenging situations as a leader, I just find them to be common sense but can't say I'd give them much weight as a recruiter and have never chosen to add it in any of my campaigns, seems too easy to manipulate if you really wanted to.

Maybe I'm just a mediocre cookie cutter civil servant 😂😂

Interesting. My husband is a civil servant in a regulatory department. He moved from a big 4 accountant, and is eyeing a role in industry for his next move.

He was astonished by the change in culture when he moved, but I basically refused to try for a baby whilst he was working sixty hours a week minimum.

I was looking at roles in my own field with the civil service, and was surprised that the equivalent Civil Service role ONLY paid the market rate. And for that, I'd be responsible for advising all MP offices, plus Parliament and the HoL.

Schooling a bunch of Tories on an area of law they're determined to fuck up? No thank you.

I just got an email from a someone from HM Treasury with a 'head of' job title. That person was a work experience student at our place of work less than 5 years ago.

Statutory leave is 5.6 weeks, (28 days for workers on a 5 day week) and employers can count Bank Holidays within that

A ‘good’ employer is expected to give leave plus bank holidays - so it would be contradictory for government to discount them

www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

Civil Servants are generally on 25 to 30 days (rising over 5 years) annual leave plus bank holidays, and the additional 1 privilege day

Personally I’m on 31.5 days annual leave (as the other 1.5 privilege days were taken away after I was promoted and are in my contract of employment)
If I take promotion then I’ll change contract and lose leave - but I also won’t progress on the pay scale without promotion

Thanks. So…one additional bank holiday then.

That was meant to include the quote from @Overthebow

^^
Overthebow · 11/03/2023 08:37
HikingforScenery · 11/03/2023 08:33
Many departments get the same standard 25 days leave
Show quote history
That’s higher than a lot of private sector jobs, statutory is 20 days and lots get that. Civil service also get additional bank holidays.

Many jobs do only get leave including Bank Holidays which was Overthebows point
But based on a full time 5 day week, 20 days including Bank Holidays is below statutory minimum, and a Civil Service starter at 25 days must legally get 3 bank holidays on top

Arguably from overthebow an entry level civil servant is on 36 days and I’m on 42.5 days
And they

Civil servant of 20+ years here. Also bloody good at my job and certainly not waiting for my career to die or whatever that nonsense was. I’ve been approached numerous times by headhunters for the industry I have most contact with but I’m not interested. I’m a grade 7, what I earn is sufficient and the work I do is absolutely fascinating and has changed the world for the better. The options open to me in private sector may pay well but they’re dull as ditchwater by comparison (or ethically questionable). My OH left private consultancy for CS a few years ago and says the same. He won’t go back to private sector.

The CS isn’t monolithic and Departmental culture varies, driven by Ministers. What I’ve seen new people struggle with a lot is the politics. Ministers can be capricious, indecisive and frankly stupid. They are frequently working on issues they know (or care) little about and it’s a fair criticism that the CS doesn’t do much to speak truth to power.

I see modesty is STRONG in the CS.

@passthegingordon what's wrong with saying you're good at your job? Being coy won't get you anywhere. Or is just women who aren't allowed to be confident in their skills? Are we all supposed to whimper in a corner with "imposter" syndrome. Fuck that.

@highstep Oh please.

What? Genuinely don't understand your issue with women saying they're good at they're jobs, they were provoked being called mediocre so it's not as if it was an uninvited defence.

YANBU.

I know people who work as their Minister's right hand man everyday on pathetic pay. Equally I know many who've left for higher pay in the private sector eg consultancy. Most civil servants in policy (at least those I know) are from Oxbridge or Golden Triangle unis and they can clearly command 6 figure sums elsewhere.

The issue also is when you factor in the costs of staying near/ commuting to/ working in Westminster (not as bad now with WFH and the option to stay further though). Those who can afford such a low salary tend to come from a more privileged background. They were trying to equalise it with Darlington, but from what I hear that's not been going very smoothly.

I can see why that would be jarring but within Big 4 consultancy and Magic Circle/Silver Circle law firms, you progress and gain titles along a roughly similar timescale as well, but obviously at much, much higher salaries.