Aibu to worry when jobs that sound so important have such a low salary?

[merrigorownd]

I'm currently job hunting, so get a few mailshots, and have an alert set up for analytical jobs in the civil service. I'm often surprised at how low the salaries are for job titles that sound strategically important for the running of our country. This is just a random example.

The range shown is for someone based in Darlington, but I clicked through to the detail and the London range was only £3k higher. I know the cost of living is lower in Darlington than in London, and that £50k is relatively a high wage in that area, but if I was a Darlington-based economist with the required level of competence to lead a team of 15 people in advising Government ministers on national policy, I think I might be well aware of my ability to earn much more with a different employer.

Oh for goodness sake, what is the obsession with hospital staff on MN. You’re right everyone else is unimportant.

I was also warned not to work for CS.

Our university (RG) warned us that it was full of people who are so hell bent on following rules from the 1970s that they don't have initiative or independent thinking skills.

And we were told its where your skills and talents end up fading into the ether.

😳

largely due to an outdated culture and ridiculous red tape.

Oh mega cross post. PPs said the same

I was looking for a WFH remote job recently and came across a job requiring lots of experience and an MBA. The salary was £28k in the South East. I was amazed because that was lower than starting salaries when I finished my MBA 20 odd years ago.

I've noticed this with WFH jobs posted - the pay is significantly lower.

I don’t work for the civil service but I work a lot with civil servants on shared projects. It’s partly as well the nature of the problems we’re asked to solve. We know that falls in older people cost the NHS and social care several billion a year. If we could reduce falls in older people we would both save money & improve older peoples quality of life. We know what works, we’ve known for years - exercise, reducing polypoharmacy, improving pavements, regular sight tests & proper glasses, timely adaptations to people’s homes.

however there’s not the money to do all that so the problem can’t be solved. It’s no wonder civil servants get demoralised and leave. When you have all the evidence of what works but know it will never be implemented cos money while seeing the government slagging millions and millions on projects for their mates, I’d leave too

Spaffing

Why do you think so many civil servants are going on strike? There are so many depts now that the media aren't reporting- you only hear teachers, nurses, paramedics. The wages are dire, they are extending the hours and we suspect before too long they will be trying to reduce our holidays. I would not join the CS now, and I'm actively looking to leave.

If you want to see public money being spaffed - check out Healthwatch.

Didn't the civil service strike recently? What's happened with that? Their pay is stupidly low, I know as I've applied for a role but I want the flexibility.

Absolutely this! It’s worth repeating this a million times! And it’s why we have massive amounts of Vacancies in the public sector, particularly NHS of course.

I applied for a civil service job that would have required a 30% pay cut if I got it, but at my age the value of the pension benefit would have made up the difference.

I agree that public sector salaries look low, but the cost of the pension is massive compared to what the private sector provides.

Agreed.
I saw a role advertised with GCHQ. It was for something like "Head of Security Analytics".
The salary was £30k! I thought - surely that's missing a '0'!

I'm applying for CS roles. I'm currently a teacher and have been told the CS value a teacher's skill set. This is interesting what people are saying here about not going into the CS in the first place!

Would it still be a good bridge between my teaching career and something else? Should I just try and find jobs in the private sector? I'm not sure what kind of job title I'd be looking for and I don't have industry experience! It's a nightmare trying to leave teaching, honestly.

I had to get a job in the pandemic after losing my three businesses was recruited as a work coach the first day I was there I could not believe the ineptitude the laziness the lack of innovation the calibre of people there. Sad to say most left all the new fresh people from lots of different industries left because it was so shit ! I was incredulous most days

£50k is a low salary for an "important" job? Excuse my ignorance as I don't really know what it entails but is analytics of the treasury seen as an important job?
As a PP has said I place importance on roles that involve caring/teaching/nurturing etc. and those are the important jobs with low salaries. I'd love a salary of £50k but instead I'll keep looking after and teaching your preschoolers for £20k. And my husband will continue caring for your sick relatives for £36k

I have worked in the public sector my whole career. Some areas have lacked innovation and been mired in red tape but that’s not the case everywhere. I have worked with some brilliant people on policies and programmes that have made real improvements to people’s lives. Yes, they (and I) could be earning more elsewhere, and yes, it can be frustrating at times but I could never get job satisfaction from a role where my ultimate purpose is to make money for someone.

In some counties, CS pays MORE than the private sector average. Imagine that

(Cornwall especially!)

Don't forget the overall package is worth more, you can easily add about 25% to try and include the pension value (though this isn't easy to accurately reflect)

You're not wrong, but I will not sit here and be told (by others) I am mediocre, I am fucking good at my job and the CS is lucky to have me, I work where I work because the subject area is fascinating, I would likely have to work in the financial sector to do what I do at a much higher salary, and the thought bores me to to tears. I earn £65k, have an excellent pension, in a cheap area, complete flexibility, and a job I enjoy. Yep I could earn £100k in an insurance firm...but no fucking thank you!

DH works in the civil service, I'm private sector. Our headline salaries are similar but his pension is massively better than mine (and mine is very good for a company pension). The salary looks poor because there's masses going into the pension. There should probably be a change in the law so that jobs have to be advertised with the full pay package including pension contributions and T&Cs. Might make public sector workers realise they are doing OK.

Oh, and 2 people on '£50550 to £57500' will be able to afford a very nice period property (e.g. This) in the nicest part of Darlington in the catchment for the best schools. What a Londoner considers low is double the average salary in the NE.

I've been Civil Service, private sector and now local government, and have family in the Civil Service. When I first left the Civil Service, I got a little over 30% more money, for a job with much more authority and less responsibility. At the same time I may have had to go into a not quite as good pension scheme and lost a couple of days holiday, but I had tea/coffee etc supplied by the company, private health insurance, decent up to date offices, better quality accommodation if I worked away from home etc. Also didn't have to pay for work parties, had decent catering for meetings, ability to occasionally WFH, decent up to date kit & didn't have to justify in triplicate why I wanted a different colour Bic pen.

The salary for the grade I was then, around 25 years ago, has gone up by a total of around £6k. Pay rises for standard Civil Servants have been capped well below those of the private sector for many years, including quite a few years of pay freezes.

Move on 25 years to local government. I am earning maybe £2k more now than the equivalent grade in the Civil Service was earning when I left, though this IS going up £2k this April. The very rare perk of tea & coffee supplies is being taken away at the same time. I get 26 days leave a year which is pretty standard and no extras. The pension scheme isn't too bad, though of course defined benefits (which we contribute a fair bit to) isn't as much of an advantage if your salary is low

Many things are dictated by grade e.g. spending limits are grade dependent even if your job involves having to expend lots of money. But at least we aren't expected to work more than our contracted hours of 37.5 hours per week which is pretty much standard.

So all in all public sector (office based) work pays shit and has virtually no perks any more. The plus side is if you manage to hold out there you have the job satisfaction (role dependent) of value to the community and a half decent pension.

I don't work for the CS but for a public body that has a lot of ex industry people. We do get better pay and terms and conditions than the CS, but we do struggle to retain some people who have niche akills that attract a lot more pay in the private sector.

One interesting thing is some private sector recruits don't realise is working for a public body is more complex and involves a lot more soft skills and political judgement. In the private sector essentially your only aim is to make money for your employer, every role ultimately contribites to that aim.

Public sector bodies have to balance lots of statutory requirements, political demands (with a large and a small P) and sometimes being asked to do stuff, not because it makes sense, but because it is demanded either by ministers or the general public.

This can lead to institutional cynicism and inertia, it is true.

There are many different types of important jobs.

Have you thought of moving within HE? You'd probably get a higher salary and similar benefits, particularly at some of the London unis...

Firstly, the CS is massive and it’s difficult to generalise. There will be good and bad teams/departments to join. There will be roles which suit you and roles which don’t.

Secondly, it depends what you’re looking for. Do you care more about flexibility/part-time options than earning a big salary? Is pension important to you? Is job security important? If so, might be a good move. Do you want perks like free tea/coffee, paid-for Christmas parties. Want to be able to earn a decent bonus each year? Want the opportunity of a good pay rise/promotion solely on the basis of your performance? If so, might not be what you’re looking for.

I’m not an ex teacher but I know there are FB groups which are all about teachers looking to career change, as I’ve seen them recommended on here. I bet there would be a few civil servants on there.

And contractors bring their own issues. This article is behind an FT paywall, but worth a read if you have access: