Aibu to worry when jobs that sound so important have such a low salary?

[merrigorownd]

I'm currently job hunting, so get a few mailshots, and have an alert set up for analytical jobs in the civil service. I'm often surprised at how low the salaries are for job titles that sound strategically important for the running of our country. This is just a random example.

The range shown is for someone based in Darlington, but I clicked through to the detail and the London range was only £3k higher. I know the cost of living is lower in Darlington than in London, and that £50k is relatively a high wage in that area, but if I was a Darlington-based economist with the required level of competence to lead a team of 15 people in advising Government ministers on national policy, I think I might be well aware of my ability to earn much more with a different employer.

I doubt @Jimboscott0115 has had a well paying job in their life. What a clown.

Are the benefits better though? I work in the private sector, earn in this range with no line management responsibility and a very low pressure job ('professional non- managerial'). 35 hours contracted, fully flexible hours - I stopped work at 1 on Thursday because I wanted to hang out with my DD - pension is good enough and I top mine up with my bonus, private healthcare etc. My employer is also nice, positive atmosphere, general sense that we do good work and should be proud.

Public sector jobs always look a lot of bother for very little reward in a grumpy environment.

What planet do you live on?

The average full time salary in the UK is something like £33,000.

£50k and over is a high salary.

This is tax payer money and this type of salary seems perfectly fine to me.

I would be more concerned about the rubbish salaries that nurses, care workers and so on are being paid. That is the real scandal.

Whilst I can completely understand how Civil Service workers could be insulted by your post, unfortunately, I can fully understand your view and be inclined to agree with you.
I considered the Civil Service and was put off it because of everything you said, it would drive me insane with all the red tape, rigid job roles, and hoop-jumping just to get things done. I have talked to some who work there and they confirm it, they are happy with it though it works for them, I just couldn't work like that. It just doesn't seem effective at all.

Making personal digs is all well and good but doesn't refute any of my points, there's a reason why most of us wouldn't even consider a wage drop to achieve very little in the civil service and it's largely due to an outdated culture and ridiculous red tape.

I've just looked at roles in my field and the civil service is literally offering less than half what I'm on in the private sector - therefore they're chasing very junior people or those absolutely mired in mediocrity.

I’m relatively senior in the public sector but every time I apply for a private sector job I don’t even get through the sift despite having 20 years experience and many transferable skills. I’d love to do more in my career for all the reasons stayed. It’s hard to get in when all your experience is in the public and third sector.

*stated

The kind of attitude from consultants that really gets up civil servants' noses even if there is some truth in it.

I used to work for the civil service years ago and their pay has hardly gone up since. I used to think it was a good salary but with inflation over the last 10 years or so it isn’t so good now, especially in London.

Saying that, grade 7 isn’t particularly high, you can reach it in 5 years or so of your career if you are a good graduate. The civil service also works less hours than lots of private sector jobs, has more holidays, bank holidays and better pension.

I get it, but the only people I can see being offended are those who are in the kinds of jobs that cause some of the problems, who love hierarchy, red tape and long drawn out processes and a slower pace of work. That's great for them, but they have to accept an outsider's view as to why talented people wouldn't or don't consider working there.

This is one of the reasons I left the civil service. Hat and the slow nature of the work compared to jobs in the private sector. Of course there are people who like working like that and that is great for them, but I ouch prefer the fast pace of the private sector.

Much prefer not ouch

TBH I think tne job title is misleading uou. This is not a senior civil service job.

"Head of" doesn't mean you are particularly senior in the civil service, it just means you are a lead in a particular subject area and a grade 7. There are a fuck ton of grade 7 staff in the civil service.

It's a lower tier middle management job at most, if that.

I have worked in government for nearly 15 years and have been reflecting on salaries recently. Last year we had a pay award across the board for all grades set at 2k. This year proposing similar. Quite progressive compared to % increase.

It occurred to me though, that colleagues in the role I was in 10 years ago pays exactly the same salary. Despite payrises after the worst of the austerity years.

What I realised is they are recruiting to those roles at lower grades when people leave, or they restructure. I have seen people accept lower grading, but the salary protected for a certain period, and there's little they can do to fight it. Then they leave after a year or two. New people join on the lower grade.

This is how in 10 or 15 years you see people being paid the same amount despite celebrating pay rises, since few people are in the same role for long as restructures are common and people move sideways or out to escape toxic teams.

So whether you are a head of service on about 60-70k, a senior manager on about 50-60k, a senior analyst on about 45k, a junior analyst on 35-40k, scaling down to the most junior entry roles on 19k - how can an admin role still be 19k after 15 years of pay rises?

Interestingly director salaries only ever go up, up up. I saw one for 170k this week. Directors 10 years ago were on around 100 and chief execs around 120 depending on size of authority.... chiefs are now on 250k+

It's a bloody scam.

I work in the public sector in a similar role. I am well aware that I could earn 50% extra in the private sector given my qualifications, skills and experience. The 'package' here is slightly better, but no longer such a huge gulf to private sector (especially as maternity is no longer an issue for me). What keeps me here is the value of the work - working for public benefit.

However, it can be soul destroying! The hierarchy, bureaucracy and inefficiency drive me to tears of frustration. I am trying to change this in our area, but it is so culturally embedded that this will take time. Meanwhile, our salaries are so out of step that we can't recruit good people- we get the lower end of the talent pool. Or, if we do by chance get someone good, they leave because they can't take the frustration. So this exacerbates the issue - high turnover or poor staff stifles progress and innovation.

Increasing salaries would offer much better public value - an investment in doing better. With salaries that could attract the top of market candidates, so much more could be achieved. But then the same is true across the public sector, and can you justify raising the salaries in these roles Vs raising NHS and education sector salaries. Basically the public sector is broken.

Many departments get the same standard 25 days leave

That’s higher than a lot of private sector jobs, statutory is 20 days and lots get that. Civil service also get additional bank holidays.

My mum used to be at Horseguards. I'm actually shocked that whilst those might be low to you they've obviously been keeping up with pay rises reasonably well compared to some other public sector work. No wonder there are so many strikes and these come with reasonable hours and breaks. Cushy indeed.

It’s one additional bank holiday isn’t it?

YANBU

I saw a data analyst job advertised last week for £21,000 - private sector for an insurance company.

5+ experience required. As was degree and preferably Masters.

Local Authority same job is £30k +

"it's where you go to die" sounds pretty accurate. I moved from private to public sector six months ago. There ARE some really good people in my department, but they have no space to grow because they're forced to spend all their time on pointless, menial tasks. The people who could change things have no impetus to, as they're just waiting for retirement.

A lot of people I work with are very underqualified for their roles and would never be able to find work in the private sector due to their low level of skill, despite having worked for 10+ years. The expectation of what will be achieved each day is minimal. Projects that I would complete by myself in a couple of weeks in the private sector now drag on for months, due to staff inefficiency but also the need to make every decision by committee.

I was warned off by other people in my field, but in my naivety thought 'surely it can't be THAT bad'. 😑

I'm not a civil servant but work a lot with HMT. Everyone I deal with is 'Head of' something. It doesn't correlate at all with either any kind of experience or any kind of decision making power.

I’m civil service middle management and I largely (not totally) agree with @Jimboscott0115 unfortunately. You can’t achieve much in most roles because all decisions rest with ministers - if they want it to happen you have to make it happen and if they don’t care or have an opinion, nothing will happen. There are a lot of civil servants who are fairly useless and have managed to drift under the radar, scraping promotions, for many years. The red tape and hierarchy is ridiculous. Getting on and up is not about capability, it’s about how you manage relationships.

Also, I’m this grade, and I’d agree it’s not really as senior as it might sound on paper. It’s a grade where everyone wants a job title that makes them sound more important than they are.

On one level I’d love to leave the civil service. But a) I’m actively job hunting and finding similar T&Cs (part time, 33 days leave + bank hols, flexi hours) is very tough, and b) as someone who considers myself fairly capable, I feel a real guilt at adding to the “brain drain” that I’ve seen hit our department very hard over the last few years.

I work in local government and it is dire.

The red tape and many, many, many levels of management seem designed to stop anything actually changing or improving.

Quick turnover of high level jobs, each one sets off some new way of designing the council and then disappears without anything actually changing and while the rest of us just get on with our jobs.

It has been incredibly flexible over the years though, I have gone part time, returned to full time, excellent maternity pay, sick pay, annual leave, flexi time, but I do worry that it has sapped my will and enthusiasm and I now might never leave. Not sure I could manage elsewhere!

Never in a million years is the 21k job going to recruit a suitable candidate then, in this market. They are living in a dream world.