What stops you voting Labour? #2

[SleepingRedSnowBootsAndThePea]

Just tried to post on that thread but it had run to 1k responses already, so here is a continuation one and my answer to the OP's question.

Rachel Reeves in her recent Mumsnet interview made it clear that she's not interested in dealing with the anomalies and unfairnesses in the tax system. One example given and that she was asked about in that interview was the way single parent households/ single income households lose child benefit at half of the household income. But there are many, many more such issues creating disincentives to work across the economy.

The role of Chancellor, if the country is to improve in terms of services or living standards, is more important than that of Prime Minister. And I found her response on this critical issue very poor.

Her day one job in role should be to address the things that she can fix immediately, that ARE within her power to sort out with immediate effect. Most economic reforms will take far longer to bear fruit but the tax system, as Chancellor, she would be able to sort out, if she had the will. Yet she made it clear that she has no intention to do so.

Bizarrely for someone who I had high hopes for as a potential Chancellor - as someone who for a change does actually understand economics - she appeared to be unwilling to accept or engage with, let alone address, the massively damaging effect our tax system has on families but also on productivity, at all levels of earnings. And particularly on single mothers and childhood poverty, given that most one parent households (over 90%) are headed by women, and much of child poverty is in those households. And yet she's quite happy for them to be taxed more than other households with the same income, and have child benefit withdrawn at half the income, etc.

So, despite her protestations about wanting to address productivity - which is the only way our economy can grow so that living standards rise and public services can be funded properly - I don't believe she's serious about doing it. Even if there are big infrastructure products and jobs in green energy etc as Labour claim there would be, if the tax system isn't fixed, it won't fix the problem.

The tax system needs fixing at every level of earnings:

amp.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/13/full-time-part-time-work-no-longer-pays-uk-economy

I am hugely disappointed in her response to even the partial question on this that Mumsnet asked her in that interview in relation to child benefit. And they didn't even bother to ask her about the wider question about how she should obviously remove the disincentives at every level of the tax system: double the tax-free allowance for single people, double all the tax/ benefit thresholds for them, get rid of the absurd tax rate of 60%+ at £100k. Remove the bottlenecks that stop, at various earning thresholds, it being worthwhile for many households of any composition to work more or seek promotions etc.

The way she responded shows me she's not willing to make rational, evidence based, fair policy and is instead - depressingly - yet another politician who will pander to optics instead of doing what works and what needs to be done, for everyone.

So I can't vote for them unless their policies on this change.

The discussion of childcare as well that focused almost entirely around mainstream wraparound care and involved no comment whasoever on provision of funding to parents who have children with SEN and can't attend those settings was also shocking, and shows they have no proper awareness of the problems for disabled children and their families.

@winniethepoohandtiggertoo

Very much doubt any politician in opposition is going to give specific policy details at this stage of the game. Gives too much ammunition.

Very much doubt any party would double the tax-free allowance for single people and/or double all the tax/ benefit thresholds for them. It's a great idea on paper but by Christ it would get abused. Be a hell of a lot of new cohabiting but separated parents if you could save ££££ per year.

As for child benefit, does anyone know just how many households fall into the both partners earn just less than the £50k bracket? I'm hazarding a guess here but the cost of paying those households child benefit is probably a lot less than the cost of administering the means tested system.

Fully agree though that Labour need to come out with actual policies rather than the vague soundbites they are doing.

I agree particularly on the single parents and child benefit issue. It would be really easy to fix this for single parents (vast majority women). It’s currently an “honesty” system that requires you to self assess if you earn more than 50k. All they need to do is change it to 100k for single mums.

But they don’t give a f*ck about women. They don’t even know what women are or they pretend they don’t. Jess Philips even sabotaged reading out a list of murdered women by adding a male. I won’t be voting for them till they fix this.

These threads just make me stronger in my conviction to vote for Labour

YES there are some genuine issues and things I don't agree with

But none of them seem as bad when compared to what the Conservatives have done and are continuing to do to this country

Labour have a lot of good policies to me they outweigh the bad

Over all I think they'd be an obvious improvement on what we have now and I really don't get how anyone can look at the last 10 years and think otherwise

Labour will proceed with self-ID. I won't vote Labour whilst this is their position.

In many countries tax works on a household basis. It's not some outlandish idea. It's the norm in many systems that actually function properly unlike ours and don't penalise people who are disadvantaged already.

People abusing systems is not a reason to make systems deliberately unfair. You simply implement appropriate anti-abuse measures.

The evidence for what I said - which is that there are bottlenecks in the tax system at every level of earnings and for all types of households that are entirely within a Chancellor's remit to be able to remove immediately that are hampering productivity - are well documented and evidenced. Anybody claiming they deserve this job should be stating very plainly that they will remove them, for people at all levels of earnings, if they want earnings and living standards and tax revenue to rise.

Yep. And the tax free allowance and other tax thresholds. It's a disgrace that she has the audacity to claim she is a feminist yet hasn't engaged with this issue at all.

That's my point: despite the fact we have the worst Government in living memory I'm not convinced they will be an improvement if they can't even make a commitment to implementing well-evidenced policies that would a) removed basic unfairness, b) benefit those at an unfair disadvantage, and c) boost productivity so help everyone.

See also their responses on the single market and customs union.

Same thing. Gutless, refusal to speak the truth or follow evidence. Just more partisan, focus-group based nonsense. Depressing. I thought RR might be different but now very unconvinced.

Lack of PR. I live in a place that's a fight between Conservatives and Liberals. Labour are nowhere. I've always voted to keep Conservatives out, but after 2 became 1 I've just gone for Labour, or when Corbyn took over, Greens.

Labour will proceed with self-ID. I won't vote Labour whilst this is their position.

Yes, I agree. This is my position as well. I've always voted Labour and always voted as women fought for our right to vote. So I'm currently unsure about what to do come voting day. If I could be sure they would protect women's rights to single sex female only spaces services and sports, then I would vote for them.

Nothing now because absolutely no government could be worse than this one. The Tories need to go before they finally destroy everything that is good about our country.

Tories are a disaster. Problem is based on the way Rachel is talking, she wouldn't be much of an improvement, because she won't actually address the systemic issues that are causing are large part of the problems.

Some are beyond the UK Government's control, but the very least we should expect from people proposing themselves as a new Government is to commit to fix the very clear issues that are absolutely within their power to fix.

But they don't seem to be prepared to make that commitment. Which is, frankly, pathetic.

The time for slogans is gone. We need grown-ups who will implement evidence-based policies that work.

Maybe if we write:

Rachel Reeves
Rachel Reeves
Rachel Reeves
Rachel Reeves
Rachel Reeves
Rachel Reeves

enough times it'll work like some kind of google-based wizard-of-oz spell and bring it to her media team's attention and she'll actually engage with the issue and pull together some policies on it to put in their manifesto.

Pipe dreams I know. More likely to get a Basilisk coming out of my pipes than a politician with sensible policies.

Angela Raynor was enough to stop me voting labour, before I encountered Rachel Reeves. I like Keir Starmer, but none of his shadow cabinet have my confidence.

In any case, it's a 2 horse race between Lib Dem and Conservatives in my area.

They are going to introduce self-ID by the back door. Anneliese Dodds has stated her support for “reproductive equality” - which means liberalising surrogacy laws - and they’ll make saying men can’t be women a hate crime.

I was a loyal (moderate) Labour member for 14 years. Never again.

Correction - I like Lisa Nandy.

Labour is absolutely my preference but

I live in Scotland and vote for whoever is most likely to beat this SNP

Should be ok to vote Labour at next election now the SNP are dropping in the polls.

Plus no Corbyn this time.

Yep this 100%

That's just another example of the same attitude really.

Refuse to remove deliberate discrimination against women and children in the tax system.

Refuse to protect women's rights to single sex spaces.

All part of the same "lalalalala we can't hear you!" theme 🙉🙉

This.

Theresa May started it. It’s going to happen whoever you vote for.

Labour haven't ever given a toot about women. Scratch the surface and they are still the 'all boys together' party. A few female mps are just window dressing.

Not satisfied with that, now they are trying to undo 100 years of women's rights. I can't bring myself to vote for them. I honestly don't think I can bring myself to vote for any of the main parties at the moment. 🙁

Yes, all of this.

Labour are shit. Tories are shit. Lib-Dems are irrelevant.

the fact is - we are a 1 party state.