What stops you voting Labour? #2

[SleepingRedSnowBootsAndThePea]

Just tried to post on that thread but it had run to 1k responses already, so here is a continuation one and my answer to the OP's question.

Rachel Reeves in her recent Mumsnet interview made it clear that she's not interested in dealing with the anomalies and unfairnesses in the tax system. One example given and that she was asked about in that interview was the way single parent households/ single income households lose child benefit at half of the household income. But there are many, many more such issues creating disincentives to work across the economy.

The role of Chancellor, if the country is to improve in terms of services or living standards, is more important than that of Prime Minister. And I found her response on this critical issue very poor.

Her day one job in role should be to address the things that she can fix immediately, that ARE within her power to sort out with immediate effect. Most economic reforms will take far longer to bear fruit but the tax system, as Chancellor, she would be able to sort out, if she had the will. Yet she made it clear that she has no intention to do so.

Bizarrely for someone who I had high hopes for as a potential Chancellor - as someone who for a change does actually understand economics - she appeared to be unwilling to accept or engage with, let alone address, the massively damaging effect our tax system has on families but also on productivity, at all levels of earnings. And particularly on single mothers and childhood poverty, given that most one parent households (over 90%) are headed by women, and much of child poverty is in those households. And yet she's quite happy for them to be taxed more than other households with the same income, and have child benefit withdrawn at half the income, etc.

So, despite her protestations about wanting to address productivity - which is the only way our economy can grow so that living standards rise and public services can be funded properly - I don't believe she's serious about doing it. Even if there are big infrastructure products and jobs in green energy etc as Labour claim there would be, if the tax system isn't fixed, it won't fix the problem.

The tax system needs fixing at every level of earnings:

amp.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/13/full-time-part-time-work-no-longer-pays-uk-economy

I am hugely disappointed in her response to even the partial question on this that Mumsnet asked her in that interview in relation to child benefit. And they didn't even bother to ask her about the wider question about how she should obviously remove the disincentives at every level of the tax system: double the tax-free allowance for single people, double all the tax/ benefit thresholds for them, get rid of the absurd tax rate of 60%+ at £100k. Remove the bottlenecks that stop, at various earning thresholds, it being worthwhile for many households of any composition to work more or seek promotions etc.

The way she responded shows me she's not willing to make rational, evidence based, fair policy and is instead - depressingly - yet another politician who will pander to optics instead of doing what works and what needs to be done, for everyone.

So I can't vote for them unless their policies on this change.

I don't live in london (I live in the north), I don't claim any benefits, i'm not well off by any means, I'm a homeowner, I'm a woman and I take personal responsibility for my own life and don't rely on the government and don't see why I should be penalised to pay for every other fucker who can't be arsed. I live in a poorly supported area that has migrants duped on my doorstep in my village with unknown number of men hanging round on the street corners every night, So NO labour is not on my side and will I hell as like vote for them.

I've come to the realisation that it doesn't matter who you vote for, the bastards always get in. I'm not even joking. It's pointless having a debate on "who's your favourite West". They are both absolute cunts.

Absolutely. There's no one who speaks for me.

I will never vote Labour . It's not in my DNA.

O

This is how I feel. Nobody represents me and nobody will commit to sensible, evidence-based policies even when they are a no-brainer. It's very depressing.

I don't live in london (I live in the north), I don't claim any benefits, i'm not well off by any means, I'm a homeowner, I'm a woman and I take personal responsibility for my own life and don't rely on the government and don't see why I should be penalised to pay for every other fucker who can't be arsed

But this is what is happening under the Conservatives, too! I am a lone parent, homeowner, full time professional job and taxed to death. Taxed way more than a household with the same income but two parents, who will also have lower costs are there are two of them to split their time on childcare and work! I and my kids are being hugely penalised to subsidise two adult households which is beyond a joke. And as I say Labour has no plans to fix this either. It does make you wonder why you bother to work so hard. Hence the productivity issue!!

I'm in the same boat too it's a joke. No one to vote for and taxed too high heaven. May be I should get a different kind of boat next time and be looked after. 😵‍💫

@Sockloon this is exactly the type of campaign Mumsnet should be taking on if they cared about women and children because the refusal to provide tax allowances and thresholds on a household level is indirect sex discrimination, impacts women far more than men, and is a direct contributer to child poverty. Aside from the fact that it's so obviously unfair and damaging productivity. It's very disappointing that Mumsnet haven't taken on the issue at all either. Didn't even bother to ask Rachel the question in her interview even though I raised it on the questions thread beforehand!!

And yes, a boat out of here looks ever more appealing. If only we'd not had our European Citizen rights revoked against our will. And Labour have no plan to fix that either.

I look at other countries and can see one or two or more parties in many European countries that are vaguely sensible have rational policies that are fair. Yet in the UK we have not a single party like that. 😔

In fact @RhiannonEMumsnet you set up and managed the thread with questions for Rachel Read. She wasn't even asked about this tax discrimination against single parents and children of those families. Why? And will Mumsnet campaign on this issue? And if not, why not? Why is it ok for single parents with only 24 hours per day to spend with their children or work to also be taxed more than (and hence subsidising) households with two parents who have 48 hours per day to do this? It damages productivity, and impoverishes women and children unfairly. Why wouldn't you advocate for this to be fixed, when unlike most it's an extremely simple issue to fix that any Government could do immediately?

*Reeves

Absolutely- you can claim a marriage tax allowance- why not for single parents? Would be a great way to help women and pull children out of poverty. But they see single mums as beneath them

Fellow single mum and actually considering voting Tory for the first time ever due to self Id. Labour offer nothing for us and are drenched with misogyny.

I will be spoiling my ballot - I am politically homeless and one of the major reasons we are intending to move overseas in the immediate future - I don’t want to live in this country anymore and whilst I don’t support the Tory government I have absolutely no faith in a Labour government under Starmer. There will be little change, years of bleating about how it is still all the tories fault and continued uncontrolled immigration and poor economic policies. Fed up of living somewhere where more people take out than put in and as a high earner I’d actually like to live somewhere where my taxes benefit me - like being able to access vital services like booking a bloody GP appointment.

Exactly. Over 90% of single parents are women. why is mumsnet disinterested in us?

I won’t vote Labour for a few reasons - gender ideology, mad policies with low benefit and dislike Starmer and Rayner

I have in the past but for this current iteration it’s a no

Not just taxed to the hilt as a single mum but I lose child benefit and pay a fortune for childcare. No wonder so many single mums don’t work.

another thing that really gets me is the low status of single mums and the treatment as if we should somehow be grateful that people are just tolerating us. As if we have something terrible to be ashamed of.

Well eff off. I work in a professional job and I support my family on my own. If I was a man I would be a hero. Because I’m a woman I’m supposed to be embarrassed and feel like I’m some sort of shameful slag. I don’t. I’m proud of my hard work and demand equality.

@MarshaBradyo what are the mad policies ? The government has actually nicked some of them.
Oh wait I guess the loss of charity status of private schools .....🙄

Yep and abolishing HoL plus trying to fund NHS from non dom

It’s easy to see why they land well with some but they won’t do much other than damage a sector, overwhelm state sector and since people with options can move easily just leave.

I have dc in state too so it’s not about fees. It doesn’t stack up.

And I’m not convinced re GPs in NHS and education curriculum reform. Doesn’t sound great

Nobody who has been paying attention should be surprised by Rachel reeves' views ( l live on Leeds so I'm probably more aware of her than most). She has been positioning herself as economically on the right for years.

It shouldn't be a difficult choice. A dangerously right wing government Vs a soft right opposition who is already making noises about privatising the NHS.

But if labour win then I see no hope at all for any future leftish government. The current labour party has been expelling many decent people from the party while welcoming back soft right people who joined other parties as they fought against momentum. They have expelled Jewish members who have spoken up - quite softly - for Palestinian rights. They follow the mail agenda and leave it to the unions and Gary linekar to speak out against the government shenanigans, only waiting to see which way the wind is blowing before picking a side. It is now full of loathsome people dressing up their loathsomeness as a kind of 'maturity'. The ford report has been ignored and unread. They are not as bad as the Tories but they are cut from a similar cloth and they will not suddenly lean left when they are in power.

And they will continue to be like this as long as they can say to people on the left "well who else are you going to vote for? You're not going to let the Tories in again?" Said by the very same bunch who worked tirelessly to undermine labour at the last two elections.

It's a completely opposite situation to the Tories where a small bunch of hard right of the party holds inordinate power and can wag the dog. And while they can rely on our vote I don't see any way to swing the pendulum back.

Theresa May is one backbench MP in a cohort of 355 Conservative MPs out of 650 MPs in the HoC. Even if she HAD invented the concept of Self ID (she didn't) and even if she were inclined to buck the party line (she never has been, except that one time when she insisted on leaving the Single Market in direct conflict with the manifesto), she hasn't the ability to push a Self ID policy through now that her party have decisively rejected it.

That doesn't mean the Conservatives aren't terrible for other reasons, but Labour have to get up to speed on this one issue, and they apparently can't under Starmer. Labour don't get a free pass because another party made mistakes in the past.

Not just taxed to the hilt as a single mum but I lose child benefit and pay a fortune for childcare. No wonder so many single mums don’t work.

another thing that really gets me is the low status of single mums and the treatment as if we should somehow be grateful that people are just tolerating us. As if we have something terrible to be ashamed of.

Well eff off. I work in a professional job and I support my family on my own. If I was a man I would be a hero. Because I’m a woman I’m supposed to be embarrassed and feel like I’m some sort of shameful slag. I don’t. I’m proud of my hard work and demand equality.

@SueVineer exactly this. I am SO sick of it. I provide everything. And we get nothing but vilification. Obviously far higher childcare costs because we can't be in two places at once and not only no extra allowances for that but we're taxed MORE than two parent households with the same income, and have child benefit and "tax free childcare" and funded hours etc withdrawn at half the household income. No political party gives a damn, because they don't think recognising the superhuman effort of single mothers would be popular. France and Denmark etc tax based on household income. Why would you victimise the heroic parents already doing two parents' jobs and expect them to pay more than everyone else? It's mind boggling and it disgusts me that Mumsnet have refused to take up this topic and campaign on it. Perhaps they also think single mothers aren't worthy of respect and fair treatment. Not even asking for any help, just not to be penalised by being charged more than other households with the same earnings!

@RhiannonEMumsnet do tell all of us single parents (over 90% of whom are women) whether you will take up this issue as a campaign. In the interests of women's rights, reducing child poverty, increasing productivity and for the purpose of basic fairness. If you won't I - and it appears others who are also being subjected to this penalisation through the tax code - would love to hear why not.