What % of your income from work do you spend because of work?

[verdantverdure]

AIBU to ask you what percentage of your income from working you spend because you are working?

A younger family member has asked me to cast an eye over her sums and it looks to me like she can't afford to go back to work after maternity leave.

Once you add up nursery and the commute, she's already running at a loss even before she buys new work clothes to fit her post pregnancy figure and current norms at her workplace.

Not including convenience foods such as pre chopped veg or a bought in lasagne etc so she can get dinner on the table soon after she gets home, or takeaways for the nights she's too shattered to do that.

A cleaner do her weekends can be family time not housework time?

Treats to cheer her up because life is a bit of a grind?

Stuff like hair, make up and nails so she looks "groomed" at work?

What about you?

What percentage of your income from working do you spend because you are working?

I’m amazed at how many people don’t have a commute or need childcare! If I considered the cost of childcare to come wholly out of my salary - which I don’t but for perhaps the more pertinent question of whether you’re contributing to or depleting the family budget - then over 50% of my salary would be taken up by the cost of working.

Around 20% on my commute, which is depressing as I only travel 3 days, around 30% for three days childcare and one day wraparound, and then optional extras such as coffee/some lunches. I don’t really include clothes in this as I don’t tend to buy many that are exclusively for work. We don’t have a cleaner as we can’t afford it (or not if we ever want to be able to have any other extras such as a monthly takeaway). I’ve only ever had my nails done when I was a bridesmaid!

But totally agree you need to look at the bigger picture of keeping your foot on the pedal and also pension contributions. And whether she’s married as that affects financial security if you quit work.

Petrol 10-12% of income
I don't buy lunches, would need to eat at home anyway, so don't think of it as cost. Work clothes- I buy them when old ones die, so it's very low cost compared to number of times I wear them. But yeah, petrol is the biggest expense.

I am expecting a baby now, and when I calculated nursery fees, I barely make any profit. Including petrol, it will be a miracle if I actually make any profit given that baby won't be ill and I can't go to work or so.

I’m amazed at how many people don’t have a commute or need childcare!
DS was latchkeyed full time by age 10, except for some school holiday care until he started secondary. Lone parent so few options.

@WhoHidTheCoffee but a lot of it is timing. We have four children and have spent thousands and thousands on childcare over the years
It's only now we both wfh pretty much 90% of the time (thanks to covid) and our youngest is at school that we don't pay it. Well we do but it's after school club a couple of days and holiday clubs.
Throughout my children's younger years I've done a combination of full time, part time, very brief period of being a SAHM and did a part time job at night for a short time too which was especially tiring after being at home with 3 pre schoolers all day
At one point we had two in full time childcare and it took up my whole wage and more if we factored in petrol etc
Me working part time works best right now. I am lucky to be in a job where they allowed me to and know I can do the job well. I am completely happy with the set up and for now I'm staying part time and just doing additional hours during term time. I wouldn't have wanted to step out of the workforce entirely and now we're through the other end of it we are in a good position financially

I don't understand why things like haircuts and lunch are factored in as being necessary because of working. Wouldn't those things happen anyway?

If it's coming off the bottom line of their family accounting, then put both their incomes (including pension contributions, and NI) on the top and expenses that are incurred on the bottom.

By all means look at the net position.

Just fuel (job is 7 miles away) and clothes as and when. Other stuff like make up I would buy anyway. Food is just whatever I would cook if I was at home - unless you both work really long hours you don't need convenience food.

Do SAHPs not eat lunch? Lol.

I think the bigger question is does she actually want to go back to work? It's not just financial benefits. I enjoy going to work and having the break from DS. But everyone is different?

It's clearly in the long term and most probably short going going to be beneficial financially to go back. Seems like it would be used as quite a lame excuse for not going back.

about 3.5% - most of that because I chose to rent an office & do hybrid working a couple of days a week.
I'd still eat lunch if i wasn't working, and as a PP has said, still have hair cuts, get my nails done, so don't consider anything other than travel and cost of my office and travel a 'cost of working'.
I suppose professional membership and CPD - another 1% maybe.

Right now we'd be better off if I didn't work, but it's good to thing about the long term gain. Luckily we can afford for me to continue working - ridiculous, I know. The nursery fees and other expenses are more than my take home salary, although pension contributions make that figure look better.
I also wouldn't want to be SAHM. Kudos to all the full time parents out there, it's hard work.

I’m past that stage as are my friends but working kept us with a hand in the workplace and our pensions going. One friend was very much in the minus figures as she had three children. We are all in our fifties now and there have been three divorces in my group of long term friends. One of them was a SAHP and she is now financially totally f*ed as she took about 13 years out of the workplace.

I walk to work and take my own lunch so no expenses there. I've probably bought the odd outfit I wouldn't have bought otherwise, but my work is very casual so most people just wear jeans and trainers.

My travel is pretty pricey - about a 6th of my take home pay. Half of childcare costs is about a 10th. I don't buy many clothes. I then spend maybe a 20th of my pay on resources for work (teacher). I take a packed lunch and hot drinks are free.

If she stays home now she saves on short term costs. Considerable costs, for sure, but they're short term. Children go to school eventually. It will mean that as a family despite her working, they'll have a reduced income.

BUT

If she doesn't go to work, and you say she likes her career, then how likely is it that she'll renter the workplace in 5 years on the same income she gets now? That's assuming she'd have no career progression/salary increase in 5 years.

What's the difference between the income she'd be on in 10 years if she stays home until nursery costs aren't a factor and if she goes to work, takes the short term financial hit but continues building her career, future earning potential, pension and no doubt, actual salary increases in that time?

As for her DH working away, if she stays home, she'll ACTIVELY be facilitating his career progression. He's 50% responsible for his children. What's his plan for his children when he works away? Right now he cannot do his job if he doesn't have wifey at home looking after the children. If she stays home for the benefit of the short term costs on the family and to the benefit of the long term advancements if his career, what's his plan to make sure she doesn't have a hole in her pension contributions? What's his plan for when she does want to return to work and needs to devote extra time and energy rebuilding her career??

This is about a lot more then blow dries and nail bars.

I don't really see how this is possible. She needs to look into the 20% tax free childcare scheme, potentially a childminder instead of nursery, and if commuting costs are insane maybe a job nearer home or one where she can WFH part of the time.

If the figures don’t make sense for her to go back then that’s the decision they make, like millions of other families who’ve done the same whilst the children are pre-school. However, she’s the one taking on all the risks by doing so - no job if her DH up and leaves/dies/made redundant, no pension, loss of experience/promotions in her work role etc. Even if as as a family they’re no better off financially it may be worth having both jobs just so those risks are spread across both adults.

Once you add up nursery and the commute, she's already running at a loss even before she buys new work clothes to fit her post pregnancy figure and current norms at her workplace. the commute is something that most people consider before taking a job. For some a long expensive commute is worth it for the salary or the experience. Others actively choose a job closer to home. Most workplaces are now smart casual so lots of people wear clothes they wear out of work anyway.
Not including convenience foods such as pre chopped veg or a bought in lasagne etc so she can get dinner on the table soon after she gets home, or takeaways for the nights she's too shattered to do that. This is a luxury if you can afford it - the rest of us batch cook and freeze, use th eslow cooker or have 'quick' nights like something on toast etc. cant be bothered nights are for something out the freezer. I wouldnt add this into the cost of working as there are cheaper options.
A cleaner do her weekends can be family time not housework time? again this is a luxury, i would say far more people just do cleaning in the evenings/weekends than have a cleaner and there are plenty of people who dont work who still have a cleaner!
Treats to cheer her up because life is a bit of a grind? again a luxury and you dont have to be working to buy treats!
Stuff like hair, make up and nails so she looks "groomed" at work? again hair/make-up is something most people do regardless of whether working or not! i have never had my nails done so to me thats a luxury choice not a necessity.
Lunches plenty of people take a sandwich or tin of soup from home so no extra cost cos you would still eat if at home!

Really the only costs from the above that are not a luxury or a choice are childcare and commute. Commute is a choice although not as easy if you have no choice to move etc so really childcare is the only totally unaviodable cost.

I chose a workplace that was 5 minute drive away to enable me to do school drop off etc. I often wear jeans and a jumper to work which are all things I wear out of work, even the dresses I wear I would wear on weekends on the right occasion. I take lunch in with me most of the time and I am lucky that work often buy us lunch and treats. I have my hair done once or twice a year and would do that regardless, no nails and just basic makeup i would wear anyway. My kids are teens so no childcare but when they were babies my and DH worked opposite shifts to negate that cost. No cleaner so just clean as I go and DH also does his share. Cooking is either me or DH or teen DD who loves to cook so getting a child into cooking at an early age pays off later!! Treats are bought regardless!
So actually work doesnt really cost me anything that I wouldnt still spend if I didnt work and actually probably saves me money as I have no tiem to go to the shops and spend on random stuff!!

This thread is wild.
Chopping veg takes minutes and there are plenty of quick and very easy meals you can make instead of a takeaway.

I'm also wondering what industry still has women going for weekly blow dries and nail appointments that apparently don't pay well enough to mean that childcare and commuting fees = a loss.

If without a child you've got the spare cash to throw on a weekly blow dry, you're well paid enough to get childcare.

I'm not sure I'm following your maths.

If someone can afford a weekly blow dry they can afford weekly childcare?

How much is a blow dry? £30?

How much is childcare for a week? A bit more than £30?

No sorry that's not the maths
I'm saying that if you have the type of job which means you have the expendable income for a weekly blow dry then you must be paid quite well.

So to summarise,

Her choices are:

1.	Take a couple of years off and materially damage her career and pension. 

2.	Be a financial drain on the family finances for a couple of years because childcare and commuting costs eat up more than her take home pay, plus they won’t even be able to afford takeaways or a cleaner to make things easier. 

Does that sound about right?

Not quite well enough to cover £4k per month on commute and childcare.

Or skip the occasional nail job and blow dry and have a takeaway instead. Same re: cleaner. Prioritise.

43%, which is literally just my commuting costs and my proportional percentage of the childcare (we pool all income but earn 60/40 so I've calculated it proportionally).

Of course there's other incidental costs like clothes, lunches etc but I haven't included them because they're (arguably) a choice. This is literally just the costs of getting me there and having someone look after our children while I'm there.

Mortgage + commuting + childcare is 72% of our income before you factor in any other bills, food, clothes for 2 children. That's on a (just) 6 figure household income. It's completely fucking insane.

It is @ShadowPuppets.