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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

School celebrated a Muslim LGBT activist on International Women’s day!

423 replies

Threemangoes · 09/03/2023 00:06

AIBU to be annoyed at the school? I’m baffled as why have the school missed an opportunity here. They already celebrate lgbt history month and then pride in June at school.

Why is this issue that affects a very tiny minority is so heavily influenced in children’s curriculum?

OP posts:
Threemangoes · 09/03/2023 01:10

Primary school and gay kids?

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 09/03/2023 01:11

Threemangoes · 09/03/2023 01:06

Do you know the amount of problems majority of Muslim women face every single day in UK and world wide???
I have unfortunately seen it first hand in a third world country and more so in Britain.
But no, let's celebrate Muslim gay women who make up less than 1% of women(approx correct me if I'm wrong).

That seems an odd statistical issue.

Surely she shares women's issues and Muslim women's issues as well as lesbian issues. I mean if a blonde woman spoke you wouldn't say that blonde women are a tiny minority, would you?

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 09/03/2023 01:11

ScrollingLeaves · 09/03/2023 00:59

I understand what you are saying OP.

She may be a special woman, but the aim of primary schools is not to constantly promote LHBT. It is out of all proportion. It isn’t the only protected characteristic.

The only thing the children need to know a is that sometimes people of the same sex love each other.

Children aren't born racist, homophobic or intolerant. That's a learned behaviour, first from their parents and then from wider society.

It shouldn't be the place of schools to have to deprogramme children back to their natural behaviours, that is true. Unfortunately, there are a huge amount of parents out there who imprint their own intolerances onto their children from the get go, and if it's not tackled fairly early on there's a much higher chance of the parental prejudices becoming entrenched in the child.

LuluLehman · 09/03/2023 01:11

Threemangoes · 09/03/2023 01:06

Do you know the amount of problems majority of Muslim women face every single day in UK and world wide???
I have unfortunately seen it first hand in a third world country and more so in Britain.
But no, let's celebrate Muslim gay women who make up less than 1% of women(approx correct me if I'm wrong).

I think someone has already asked you this but I will ask again as you may not have answered: isn't an LGBT woman a woman? Or do you consider her less of a woman because she is LGBT?

WomanStanleyWoman2 · 09/03/2023 01:11

Threemangoes · 09/03/2023 01:06

Do you know the amount of problems majority of Muslim women face every single day in UK and world wide???
I have unfortunately seen it first hand in a third world country and more so in Britain.
But no, let's celebrate Muslim gay women who make up less than 1% of women(approx correct me if I'm wrong).

A gay Muslim woman is still a Muslim woman. The clue’s in the name.

MrsTerryPratchett · 09/03/2023 01:11

Threemangoes · 09/03/2023 01:10

Primary school and gay kids?

I was straight for Han and Indiana so yes, primary school.

Notatallanamechange · 09/03/2023 01:12

Threemangoes · 09/03/2023 01:06

Do you know the amount of problems majority of Muslim women face every single day in UK and world wide???
I have unfortunately seen it first hand in a third world country and more so in Britain.
But no, let's celebrate Muslim gay women who make up less than 1% of women(approx correct me if I'm wrong).

What’s that got to do with your original whinge?

CremeEggQueen · 09/03/2023 01:12

CremeEggQueen · 09/03/2023 01:08

This is a primary school. The children aren’t gay or straight.
Of course they are!!
I knew I fancied boys in primary school, round about the age of 10.
(I'm straight)
Surely it's a good thing to know that it's OK to be attracted to the opposite sex? I know not everyone will agree with me there though

FFS, I obviously meant the same sex, not opposite! ☺️

Linning · 09/03/2023 01:13

ScrollingLeaves · 09/03/2023 00:40

sugarspices· Today 00:19
Hang on, you're mad that a school celebrated a woman on international women's day because the woman they chose is an LGBT activist and a muslim? Should they have specifically chosen a white straight woman?

The point is the constant promotion of LGBTQ+ in that school. They already have history month and pride, now they’ve found a reason for more. The Muslim woman is a U.K. citizen and part of those two other events already. She doesn’t have to be picked out.

Do they have an other religions month?
A differently abled month?
Art and achievement of other cultures month?
(Maybe they do.)

Promotion of LGBTQ+ at school?

Would picking a straight black woman, a straight scientist, a straight feminist be pushing people to be heterosexual and promoting it in any kind of way or would it be just factually talking about humans and their achievements?

gay people also happen to be scientists, black, feminists, researchers, bin men and what else and promoting people who are impressive in an area and just so happen to be gay doesn’t mean promoting their sexuality. Though yes, being gay might make it harder to get to those same places (as often does being black or from an often discriminated religious background). Hence why it’s now often seen as an extra achievement.

Not that promoting gay rights should ever be seen as a bad thing anyway, as only idiots would think the point of asking for gay rights is to convince little children to be gay (which is impossible to do otherwise conversion camps on gay people would have worked also) and not grasp the importance of preaching kindness and respect of others.

You are right, there should be more done about disability and other discriminated and cultural groups. So, what are you doing to promote them? And how does being upset at gay people and not straight, white, abled people for being the most represented groups in media and other outlets, including school books and school examples help that goal? (Or do the healthy white (often Christian) straight folks we have all been fed in all the school books for decades somehow insidiously avoid to promote anything nor outshine the rest of the curriculum and minority groups, including disabled and other cultural groups like LGBTQ+ somehow and if so how? And don’t you feel a little biased?)

Scyla · 09/03/2023 01:14

LuluLehman · 09/03/2023 01:11

I think someone has already asked you this but I will ask again as you may not have answered: isn't an LGBT woman a woman? Or do you consider her less of a woman because she is LGBT?

It's a stupid question though isn't it?

Threemangoes · 09/03/2023 01:17

Yes a gay woman is just a lettuce. Don't roll your eyes I'm not serious. Infact you need to read my posts again. Gay, muslim, purple, spotty or tree like. My annoyance is that only 1 of these topics is given a lot of emphasis in Primary schools.

OP posts:
LuluLehman · 09/03/2023 01:19

Scyla · 09/03/2023 01:14

It's a stupid question though isn't it?

It is absolutely a stupid question, but the OP's post suggests that the two are mutually exclusive.

LuluLehman · 09/03/2023 01:22

Threemangoes · 09/03/2023 01:17

Yes a gay woman is just a lettuce. Don't roll your eyes I'm not serious. Infact you need to read my posts again. Gay, muslim, purple, spotty or tree like. My annoyance is that only 1 of these topics is given a lot of emphasis in Primary schools.

The only person who sees this as a problem is you. And I doubt the school would say they are "promoting" LGBT - a very loaded term. LGBT is normal. It doesn't need promotion.

CremeEggQueen · 09/03/2023 01:24

Threemangoes · 09/03/2023 01:17

Yes a gay woman is just a lettuce. Don't roll your eyes I'm not serious. Infact you need to read my posts again. Gay, muslim, purple, spotty or tree like. My annoyance is that only 1 of these topics is given a lot of emphasis in Primary schools.

She's a woman.
So what exactly is your problem?
What "type" of woman would be more preferable to you?

Notatallanamechange · 09/03/2023 01:24

You are asking for segregation.

Women of minorities to only be ‘celebrated’ on their specific day but not under the ‘International Women’s Day’ banner.

It’s so fucked up and so wrong.

BensonStabler · 09/03/2023 01:24

Linning · 09/03/2023 00:49

You feel the school have missed an opportunity here? Have you not been made aware of the massive amounts of oppression women suffer currently in extremist Muslim countries? And most of the women suffering at the hands of the extremist are mainly straight, so one can imagine the hardship of being both gay and Muslim.

in which way do you feel being straight and dare I say white (or should I say non-Muslim/religious) would have been more appropriate or more inspiring/empowering?

You realize that until not ALL women are free (and yes that includes gay women and Muslim women as both those categories add a layer of oppression to « just » being a woman) from oppression, none of us will truly be free?

The fact that you think that gay rights and religious hardships is a kind of oppression that shouldn’t be acknowledged on international women’s day because it doesn’t affect you/the majority of occidental woman is beyond me. Religion and sexuality are two of the main oppressing factors of women, literally the whole patriarchy all the way down to abortion rights and women body autonomy and slut shaming is based on it. Come on, OP! If you can’t see how intersectionality is fundamental to actual freedom for women, I don’t know what to say.

it’s ALL linked. No woman will truly be free if lesbians are gauged okay to oppress or to sexualize, or worse, brutalize and murder for loving who they do and no woman will genuinely be free until all women (including Muslim women) have full freedom of choice and full body autonomy.

The fact that you think learning about someone more mainstream, more straight and more the norm would be most appropriate and the better opportunity boggles the mind. I personally think it’s those most oppressed who still chose to fight back and be proud of who they are despite the risks who are most inspiring. I am heavily inspired by the women of Iran currently. There is something about making a stance that could mean life or death for you but also means freedom that is truly inspiring. Any gay Muslim woman who is out and about risks serious life-threatening backlash from her community.

it might not seem like much to you but gay marriage is still illegal in most countries and was legalized in a lot of Europe only in the last decade (!). The fact that you think the month of June is enough light on the topic of LGBTQ+ folks to undo thousands of years of homophobia and discrimination is funny. Because NO, we shouldn’t just talk about gay rights in June. It should be talked about (just like with women’s right) every day until gay folks are treated like straight folks anywhere, to the point no OP like you would ever be upset at a school for talking about a lesbian woman on another month than June!

This, This and more of this!!

bravo @Linning

Linning · 09/03/2023 01:25

@Threemangoes

your anger is completely mid-directed though.

The most represented people at school (both in books, including school books and media) are white straight people.

LGBTQ+ are now more talked about (after thousands of years of oppression and extermination) but they are NOT the one outshining other minority groups.

the issue isn’t that LGBTQ+ folks are talked about too much, it’s that other topics aren’t Talked about enough!

women’s rights have been discussed and debated for hundreds of years. Do you think it’s been debated and talked about too much and should be brushed under the carpet? Or does it actually deserve to be talk about and other topics are equally important and deserve the same limelight?

Promote other minority groups. Don’t tear one down to promote another. Ask the school to talk about disability like they do abled people. Ask them to talk about Hanukkah like they do Christmas etc… don’t ask them to stop speaking about a topic just because you think it’s not worth the hype. I am just a lot of men are tired of hearing women asking for more rights and better conditions of life/work and would love to shut us up and shut us down too.

That’s not the solution.

Linning · 09/03/2023 01:26

Mis-directed*

Threemangoes · 09/03/2023 01:28

I'm not annoyed at gay people. I'm annoyed that the school has missed an opportunity to celebrate another aspect of society that needs awareness/celebrating.

OP posts:
Threemangoes · 09/03/2023 01:31

But that's exactly what I have said. School has missed an opportunity here. I did not say at any point that lgbt history month and pride should be cancelled.

OP posts:
CremeEggQueen · 09/03/2023 01:31

Threemangoes · 09/03/2023 01:28

I'm not annoyed at gay people. I'm annoyed that the school has missed an opportunity to celebrate another aspect of society that needs awareness/celebrating.

Ok, genuine question as I'm honestly not sure -which other aspect of society needs awareness and celebrating?

JimmyHalpert · 09/03/2023 01:33

Maybe ask for this thread to be taken down 😅

CremeEggQueen · 09/03/2023 01:33

Threemangoes · 09/03/2023 01:31

But that's exactly what I have said. School has missed an opportunity here. I did not say at any point that lgbt history month and pride should be cancelled.

No but you want women who are LGBT and/or Muslim to stay in their designated "lane" and sit down for International Women's Day which they have every right to take part in.

Threemangoes · 09/03/2023 01:34

No!
In primary schools I want children to also learn about topics/issues/problems/difficulties that people face other than just being gay.
Children already learn that, A LOT!

OP posts:
Trez1510 · 09/03/2023 01:34

CremeEggQueen · 09/03/2023 01:31

Ok, genuine question as I'm honestly not sure -which other aspect of society needs awareness and celebrating?

I'm gonna go with white, English, straight women who give their all to the PTA and cricket teas. 👍

You know, real women who don't get a look in when all the gays and Muslims are getting their month of 'promotion'. 🙄

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