To think restaurants shouldn't be allowed to add service charges?

[Precipice]

Prices are listed on the menu. Maybe the menu has a tiny tiny print somewhere about service charges being added (or maybe it even doesn't!). When it comes to the bill, there it is.

You're already paying for the service in the cost, just as you're paying for someone to prepare whatever you're ordering if it's being prepared, and for the fact that you're there in a restaurant at all.

AIBU to think that if restaurants want to charge you 10 percent more for everything, they should raise their actual prices by 10 percent openly?

I used to work in hospitality long before service charge was added to bills.
These days when I eat out I always ask the staff at some point during the meal whether they get the service charge or the business keeps it. If it's the business I have it removed and tip in cash if the staff get it then it depends on the service, I don't tip because it's expected, I tip relative to the service I receive.

@Precipice i have never said it’s a fair system. Or a good system. For the staff or the customer. But it’s the system that’s there, that’s been there since god was a lad and you deciding you don’t like it and refusing to tip only punishes one person, the waiting staff. Not the boss, not the company, not the system, just the waiting staff.

@justgettingthroughtheday i don’t work in hospitality. But I have. And so have my kids. I hate this race to the bottom mentality. The ‘I work hard for not much so nobody else should want to get paid more’ attitude. It’s not a competition.

For all those saying, 'try working in hospitality' isn't the problem that many people have worked in hospitality at some point in their life? I, along with many of my friends, waitresses at school and university. I've also worked in retail and don't agree hospitality is intrinsically harder, not to the point you can earn such a significant extra amount hourly from tips. I think tipping 10% is fine for excellent service but more than that isn't necessary.

I refuse to pay a service charge added automatically to a bill but am happy to pay a tip, amount of my choosing in cash separately if the meal and service are good.
I remember at a restaurant in America once, there was a service charge added to the bill automatically and the server asked what amount of tip I would like to leave on top! They were annoyed when I said I wouldn't be paying both.

Happy for them to be paid more. Add it to the prices on the menu like every other industry manages to do so I can make an informed decision about whether I can afford to eat there.

Happy for them to be paid more. Add it to the prices on the menu like every other industry manages to do so I can make an informed decision about whether I can afford to eat there.
Agree with this.

Objecting to a service charge being added on, that you have to request to be removed, isn't a rush to the bottom. It's pointing out that businesses should be transparent about their pricing and not rely on customer's not noticing or feeling awkward to get more money out of them.

I don't think it's this practice specifically that would need to be adopted to try and ease the issues around staffing in hospitality, just generally better pay and conditions - employers who adopt this are going about that the easiest and cheapest way for them and maybe some feel it's better to have an optional charge than one that is static, the alternative is increasing prices by that amount anyway - which will still be resented.
Increasing pay and conditions won't go down well when prices increase and companies start defending their staff and people are refused service completely if they are awful to the staff because the company need to hold on to them and don't want them driven away by people who treat them badly.

People are already having a hard time understanding that prices have increased for hospitality services from their suppliers like gas & electricity, buying food in and other consumables and therefore the prices have gone up for the same service, or that service levels have dropped to accommodate increased prices and places are closing on some days or there's less staff or choice available to try and cut costs.

Unfortunately, although it would seem that it's a job that is really important to do well, judging by the way people react when it's not, there's a culture that it's a shitty job that isn't deserving of decent pay or respect and then there's surprise when no one wants to do it and there's a shortage 🤷🏼‍♀️

I'm a waitress, and as much as I agree that service charge shouldn't be mandatory - I can't survive on my wage alone. There are less customers/or customers spending less now which means my hours have been cut and I'm on NMW which isn't enough to live on. I really do rely on my tips to get by. It shouldn't be that way, and it's not the customers fault and obviously there are other jobs which also pay NMW and those workers can't get tips. But that's why I left one of those other jobs because I couldn't manage on that pay. We are so understaffed and we do work hard - that's not saying other people don't - but the quality of service will suffer because there just aren't enough of us to provide the level of service the customer deserves.

We do also receive a lot of abuse, sneering and general disrespect by many customers. I think every one of my colleagues have had times where we've cried in the kitchen due to the nastiness of some people. Again, I recognise that other jobs also deal with nasty customers and don't get tips but that doesn't make it OK for us either. The problem is it's a cycle - people don't want bad service (understandably), but when the staff are overworked and underpaid (like many other jobs), the service declines and customers give more abuse/don't tip so servers leave or become demotivated and the service gets even worse.

Its not tipping that’s the issue, it’s the charge that is added without consultation.

I used to work in an opticians.

I would spend ages with one customer giving them personal service and advice, answering questions, putting through the order, sending it off to be made in the on site lab. Then helping to collect them, fitting them etc.
I would get sworn at, abused, shouted at.

All for NMW.

If someone would like to explain how that is significantly different to waiting tables then I’d love to hear it.

@BitOutOfPractice But it's not at all an age-old practice. Restaurants adding service charges to your bill is pretty new. From my experiences, I'd say something that sprung up in the last decade and really kicked off in the last 3-5 years. During this time I've seen restaurants that did not previously do this switch to doing so and now it's a thing that's not uncommon.

The idea of tipping is old. Service charges are new. They're related practices, but not the same thing, since a tip is voluntary and a decision of the customer.

my new hairdressers has done this, get handed the card reader with screen showing 5, 10, 20 £ tip ! or you have to say No no tip there is no button for just paying the actual price, I often go home wet as im a fussy blowdryer, so until ive done that i dont know if its a good haircut

Maybe restaurants should just add 20% to everything on the menu then to cover the staff costs.

The only problem with that is that if the service is terrible you can't take it off.

Personally I just mentally add 20% to the prices when I look at the menu. It's not hard really. It's not a surprise is it.

Waiting tables is very unsociable hours for a start.
Weekend evenings are the majority of the shifts.

i generally tip between 10-15%. I don't tip if the service is bad.

So if the service charge is within my tipping parameters (I've seen up to 25%) i'm fine if i was going to tip. If it is over what i want to pay, or i wouldn't have tipped for some reason, i ask for it to be removed.

I don't make a huge song and dance about it though.

There has been an acute national shortage of chefs/restaurant staff for many years now which has got worse post lockdown. If you believe in supply and demand theories you will see that they are not over paid even with tips.

Margins are so unbelievably tight in restaurants, I think 1 in 3 restaurants go under in their first year. It is unbelievably tricky to not make a loss on a quiet evening, it's not as easy as suggesting that 'a boss' should pay more, especially small independents.

If you don't want to tip then just don't go out to eat. Simple.

If I’ve eaten out with a partner or friends and the service hasn’t been good or has been bad/rude then we just deduct the service charge and pay the rest of the bill.

No way am I paying for bad service.

A good restaurant will ensure it has good staff and will pay attention to customer service.

I know lots of cafes and restaurants locally and all of those who pay attention to customer service, are prompt, polite to customers etc, and they stay open. I also don’t mind tipping or paying increased prices in these. The ones which don’t pay attention to these issues, fold.

I have to disagree in the current climate with that. A few around here that people are really sorry to see go because of the good service and food.
One is closing because they can't afford to pay the increases in rent (they've been very upfront) and the increases in everything else as well and with this being the quiet time of year, they needed to put their prices up beyond what is reasonable and competitive with larger places and chains.

The ones who seem to be surviving (other than chains) are the ones where they're attached to another business like a garden centre, farm & shop, hotel etc.

Their staff won't struggle for jobs because we're a tourist area and just about everywhere is advertising for staff for the upcoming season, but there's still a shortage and you can have good staff that are giving mediocre service on the face of it because they're run ragged and then bellowed at by customers, or given a dressing down because the prices are too high or some other perceived sleight.

We pay more than many places do, and we're treated well as in we get meals on duty, staff discounts and the business doesn't keep a share of the tips (we do pay tax on them as they go through our wages) they're flexible and bend over backwards to help staff out (I've been on the recieving end and it makes such a difference) but money is still tight and if we weren't joined with other businesses that are lower cost and doing well at the moment, we'd be at risk too.

I prefer to give cash if I feel the service has been good and because it will go to the server rather than the boss.

If only it was that simple.

Good service alone does not = success

There are so many more reasons restaurants close.

Location
price
rent increases
rates
product
staff shortages
competition
customer belt tightening
food costs
food shortages
interest rises on capital costs

etc. etc

None of this makes it the responsibility of the customer to pay restaurant employees (/to supplement their wages) in lieu of the employer. None of this makes it reasonable for the restaurant to 'hide' part of the cost in a later service charge instead of putting it directly into the prices.

The only reasonable monetary expectation of customers is that customers settle the bill before they leave and pay pre-agreed prices. That's it. It's no more reasonable to expect to list price A and expect to be paid a higher price B if you're running a restaurant than it is in any other kind of business. Lots of businesses fail or have a short 'life'. That's by no means exclusive to restaurants.

I always do tip so I quite like it being invitees. Saves me calculating what’s a reasonable tip. I’m always a bit worried it won’t go to the staff though - I don’t want it swallowed up by the owner.

Being included, I mean. Ffs MNHQ, bring in an edit button.

I think that if you can't see the lack of logic in your statement then it would be better that you don't make it. If everybody followed your simple thought process then they would stop eating out and restaurants would fold even more quickly than they are doing. It's outstandingly arrogant of you to state that people shouldn't eat out, it's not your place - at all - to determine this for other people. If you are in the service industry yourself, I wouldn't tip you because your attitude stinks. Waiting staff should be paid a fair wage and in the UK they are. If they want more money then they have a choice to make.

People who can pay the stated charge CAN afford to eat out. They are not obliged to pay arbitrary charges loaded on by the restaurant to puff out their income and they also do not need to pay tips, not in the UK.

I will happily tip delivery staff because they really are on poor wages and they generally deliver a great service. Restaurant experiences are so hit and miss and some of them with such grasping, entitled staff, that it wouldn't bother me never to darken their doors again. I tip for excellence and tip well. Nobody should, in my opinion, tip waiting staff for doing their job.