To think restaurants shouldn't be allowed to add service charges?

[Precipice]

Prices are listed on the menu. Maybe the menu has a tiny tiny print somewhere about service charges being added (or maybe it even doesn't!). When it comes to the bill, there it is.

You're already paying for the service in the cost, just as you're paying for someone to prepare whatever you're ordering if it's being prepared, and for the fact that you're there in a restaurant at all.

AIBU to think that if restaurants want to charge you 10 percent more for everything, they should raise their actual prices by 10 percent openly?

It's sad that restaurants don't pay a decent wage to their staff. They should then the servers wouldn't have to rely on whether someone pays a tip or service charge

I’ve noticed this happening much more often where I stay. I wondered if it was because more people are paying by card now and often don’t have cash to leave a tip so possibly don’t leave one. I don’t think it should be added as automatic though, I think there should just be an add on option on the card machine

I always ask for it to be removed yet feel annoyed that I’m being put in that position of having to ask. It’s not the right of the restaurant to demand I pay extra and that’s the exact reason I don’t leave a tip if the service charge is automatically added. The only time the team are in with a chance of a tip is if the service is fab and if they don’t put that stupid charge on. Otherwise it’s a big 👎 👎 from me.

Any kind of expectation of tipping or additional service charge for restaurant staff, so that they take home more in line with what they hope to (or what is promised/suggested by the employer), is just condescending towards and exploiting people in low-paying jobs.

Show me a lawyer, accountant, tradesman - anybody in a 'white-collar' role and/or who runs their own business - who will only bill you for 90% of what they want/expect to receive for their work and then rely on your good nature to optionally bump it up to their required amount, as long as they've smiled enough at you or been sufficiently entertaining.

It's a very simple concept, regardless of the type of business transaction: the customer is effectively asking "How much do I need to pay you to secure your delivery of the agreed goods and/or services?" and then the vendor/provider states the full inclusive price that they require in return.

It works perfectly well in Tesco, where the price of an item shown on the shelf is the exact amount I need to pay them to become the new owner of the item - and they don't seem to be too hard-up as a company as a result of this transparent pricing policy. Of course, they have a whole load of costs to them in supplying it, but as it is their business and not mine, it is up to them to allow for all of these and bake it in to the single price that they ask me to pay for each item, if I want it.

Any decent restaurant will have a tronc scheme. Google it if you want to know what that is. My dh runs a London restaurant. His total salary is £45k + 10% bonus for meeting targets. £25k of that comes from the restaurant, £20k of his salary Is tronc. We literally could not live without the service charge. It's easy to default to 'restaurants just keep the tips and don't give to staff' but in all the restaurants he's worked in I've never heard of that. They operate a fair scheme through a tronc master. It's not just a case of increasing food prices by 10% as 100% of the service goes into wages there are no costs, you'd need to increase food prices by much more than that to make the same amount of profit to meet the staff salaries. As you can see nearly 50% of my DH wage is service.

that reminds me - i went to a restaurant and at the end the waiter stood there and asked if i wanted to donate to the restaurants charity as well. After paying for the meal i thought it was a bit unfair to do this as you feel obliged so i felt i had to pay but spoiled the meal somewhat.

It's not just a case of increasing food prices by 10% as 100% of the service goes into wages there are no costs, you'd need to increase food prices by much more than that to make the same amount of profit to meet the staff salaries.

So how do supermarkets manage to give a simple price for what they are selling and neither expect nor actually accept tips? They need thousands of staff to make their business work, but they factor this into the prices they charge the consumers - there's no extra tip for the delivery drivers, shelf stackers, checkout assistants, HR and payroll managers etc. Whether they pay a fair wage is debatable, but if not, it is their sums that are wrong and not the principle.

What's the point of running a business if you expect your customers to run part of it for you, instead of just being allowed to be end consumers paying a stated price?

How can somebody be capable of factoring in all of their other costs such as building purchase/rental/lease, business rates, taxes, accountants, utilities, kitchen staff wages, their own profits/livelihood, appliances, furniture, crockery, cost of buying in the ingredients, provision of toilets, cleaners etc.... but they somehow still need help to be able to work out that one element of how they can include their staff costs in the overall budget? Either they're not very competent businesspeople or otherwise their intent is to deceive and confuse for their own benefit.

I'm absolutely not asking for lower wages for serving staff - I just want them to be able to rely on actual guaranteed wages, ultimately funded by non-schemed customers who are given an honest all-inclusive price to pay.

If you worked in hospitality you wouldn’t be annoyed
look up tronc

I generally disagree with the idea of tipping, waiters and waitresses are paid a minimum wage which is no different than people such as carers who are not tipped. One poster said they spend their shift running back and to fetching drinks, ensuring people's allergy requirements are met - surely this is literally their job and again no different to carers who are not tipped. And if that poster is spending their time entertaining another table's toddler so the parents can eat their meal, why should I have a service charge added as my table has clearly not been looked after by that waiter/waitresses during that time?

Adding service charges is not right. If people want to tip they can but I agree with previous posters who say that the restaurants are just relying on people being too uncomfortable asking for it to be removed. Who gets the service charge anyway? If it just goes to the waiter/waitress that is really unfair - the chef is the one who has had the most difficult job and therefore the one who deserves the credit. Restaurants should just charge customers what they expect customers to pay and then pay their staff what they think they should earn.

If you worked in hospitality you wouldn’t be annoyed

But I don't work in hospitality - I'm coming from the perspective of a customer.

It really doesn't bother me how the staff end up being paid a fair wage from the proceeds of the business, just as long as it doesn't depend on me being socially manipulated into overpaying on an artificially-low stated price, rather than an actual proper inclusive price, as determined by the person who is supposed to be running the business.

Don’t pay it then it’s not compulsory

I just looked up tronc and one of the first hits said:

"The word ‘tronc’ is believed to be from the French words ‘tronc des pauvres’ meaning poor box. Having developed from the old boxes left in churches to collect money for the poor, a tronc is now a term for a special pay arrangement used to distribute tips, gratuities and service charges, as well as a sophisticated way of saving National Insurance Contributions (NICs) in the hotel and hospitality industry."

If you're happy with relying on a system originally developed to support those who depended on charity to survive for part of your earnings, rather than being allowed the dignity and pride of receiving a fair agreed wage in return for your work, like the vast majority of people, then fair enough.

Also, when it says 'saving' NICs, does it actually mean cleverly avoiding making your fair contribution to society?

Yes yes @donttellmehesalive they should be happy and grateful to be working hard for the bare minimum and be damn cheerful about it eh? 🙄

I fully accept that it may not be logical but I have always tipped waiting staff, hairdressers, taxi drivers and large item delivery drivers.

Whilst I am happy to tip a waiter who has enhanced my dining experience I don’t want the restaurant to add a 10 or 15% surcharge to be split between other staff. The chef may be great, the kitchen porter and cleaners may be the best, but they don’t directly affect me, or not as directly as the waiter.

I also don’t normally tip a set percentage as it’s no harder to bring a glass of wine to the table than a coke, or a plate with steak than a plate with pizza.

If the restaurant management wants additional money to go to all staff then it should be included in the basic meal cost, and customers can choose to dine there or not. I don’t want to sit there with a mental calculator working out what 110 or 115% of each item will cost, and nor do I want to look like a cheap skate when asking for the charge to be removed.

I can cook at home, I occasionally go to a restaurant for an enjoyable experience, and I don’t want that marred by feeling awkward about challenging a surcharge which should be, but almost never is, shown as prominently as the price of the dishes.

I can’t think of any other business where one price is advertised and then a higher one charged, unless the customer actively disputes this and asks to pay what was originally stated. I think it is a very poor practice, and would like to see it abolished.

Don’t pay it then it’s not compulsory

We realise that, but it's also clear as day that it rounds off what should have been a pleasurable evening out with family/friends with awkwardness and social embarrassment if you ask for it to be removed - that's exactly what it's designed to do, so that many people will just pay it, even if they object.

Service charge in the UK is always optional.

I hate it. Find it patronising and just wish the restaurant would charge honestly.

I think if you can’t afford the tip @WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll, yiu can’t afford to eat out. That’s the cold hard economics of it from the waiting staff’s perspective 🤷‍♀️

I can’t think of any other business where one price is advertised and then a higher one charged, unless the customer actively disputes this and asks to pay what was originally stated. I think it is a very poor practice, and would like to see it abolished.

Yes, very well summarised. Not quite as straightforward as 'well, simply don't pay it, it's not compulsory', as some people like to make out, is it?

This strange line is constantly trotted out, despite the fact that it's an insane take. Can you 'not afford' the dentist because you don't add 10% to her listed charges? Can you 'not afford' your shopping if you object to being charged a different price than that listed on the shelf/affixed to the item? Can the restaurants who are the beneficiaries of this not afford their rent and their ingredients and their gas and heating, or do you think they all pay 10% over what they are charged happily?

She earns decent tips, most in one night 485 dollars she brings home more than me 🤣

I think if you can’t afford the tip yiu can’t afford to eat out. That’s the cold hard economics of it from the waiting staff’s perspective

I realise that this is how the system is set up. I just think it's a very dishonest system and wish that the hospitality industry would be run on more reputable principles.

And I don't blame the individual staff at all for finding themselves in the position of having to rely on optional goodwill for part of their earnings rather than an actual salary - I realise that any change would have to come from the top.

The cold hard economics of it from many customers' perspective is that it is deceitful and manipulative for a business to state a price and then expect people to pay 10, 15, 20% more unless there was something wrong.

Do you personally think that everybody in all jobs earning below a certain level should expect to ask for (or just add on) tips and extra charges? Maybe the government could considerably reduce the NMW, if low-paid people across the board genuinely prefer to receive a lower guaranteed basic wage and then hope that they can get more by asking their customers, clients or employers for extra to bump it back up?

A lot of London-based restaurants add a 10-12% service charge which is optional. I think they often rely on people being too embarrassed to ask for it to be taken off. It is quite cheeky.

Can the restaurants who are the beneficiaries of this not afford their rent and their ingredients and their gas and heating, or do you think they all pay 10% over what they are charged happily?

It's a very valid question!

She earns decent tips, most in one night 485 dollars she brings home more than me

This is what I simply don't understand, whenever the question of tips and added service charges comes up:

1. Serving staff depend on their tips because they're so low paid and would really struggle to make ends meet without them, so you're a shameful, nasty big tight-fisted meanie if you don't tip.
2. Serving staff don't want to give up the system of tipping and other additional charges sprung on the customer in favour of an agreed fair set wage, as they can make a fortune from all the extras, far in excess of their actual wages.

Which is true? It cannot be both.

This. Exactly this. Most of these comments are clearly from people who haven't ever worked in hospitality. The whole mentality of "well I don't get tipped in my job" makes me squirm

Getting paid minimum wage to sit behind a counter at Boots, scanning items is a completely different job to the one you mentioned above. Most people wouldn't work front of house if they didn't receive tips, they'd rather get a minimum wage job elsewhere where it's less stress and work.

Like someone said above, no-one is getting rich on your 10%. If you can't afford to add a couple of extra quid on to a bill (when service is good) when you eat out, then you can't afford to eat out!