Relocating back to London from Asia - where do I start

[FirstTimeMummyHK]

Hi mums, I have been in asia for 10 years and have been working as a lawyer full time since I arrived (some of which was spent as a paralegal and trainee). I have worked very hard to get to where I am. I have two children, ages 5 and 18 months and feel as if I have missed a lot of their special moments as I have always worked long hours.

We have always had weekends together, but haven’t made it back for bedtime most nights. I now work in-house and so things are better but I am a stressy one, give me work and I will slog away. In Asia full time domestic help is easily available and I have benefited from that (I have had wonderful nannies who are affordable) and so I have never had to worry about the kids being well looked after or shlapped from pillar to post whilst mummy is working.

Anyway - we are relocating back to london soon and DH will find it difficult to find work for various reasons; whereas because of my PQE level and experience won’t find it as hard to get something.

I am very unsure of what to do, do I continue working full time and if so, where do I start when it comes to childcare? What happens after school for a 5 year old - so I need to organise an after school nanny or are there clubs that keep them
until 6pm?

if I decide to work part time like 3 days per week then is this the kiss of death to my career / can it even be done for a transactional banking lawyer? Will I feel like all that work I went through to get to where I am will be a waste if I take a career break and have to start many ranks lower on the ladder?

i recognise my post is a little all over the place but I am feeling very anxious and worried about money and childcare and setting ourselves up so really anything positive re relocating back to uk is welcome!! No chances of changing our minds. We need to come
back for wider family reasons.

we will be eating into our savings as soon as we return so I will
need to at least get a part time job I think.

I need to make this AIBU so will say - AIBU to be so anxious…!

Thank you for getting this far. Best wishes. M.

Get yourself on the two fat expats facebook group, and post on the living abroad section on mumsnet to get the attention of people who have done such big moves before.

I'd be tempted to say DH does the childcare until he gets a job, and you work FT - at least initially.
London is EXPENSIVE, and childcare will be very different to a nanny in Asia.
You will also be at the mercy of whichever school has spaces for your oldest - and that could be some distance away. Yes, there will likely be an after-school club or a childminder who will collect your oldest from school and care foe them until around 6 - exact finish times vary.

We came back to the UK 3 years ago, and it's been great.

What’s prompted the move? Can you get a transfer back? Seems a little precarious financially.

I repatriated from Asia to UK a few years back without children and it was hard enough - be prepared for reverse culture shock! Hit me like a freight train. Having a plan and employment already lined up helped massively with resettling though. My DH didn't and he hugely struggled and dipped into a depression and was out of work for a year as a result. Not everyone will have the same experience though, obviously, but being prepared definitely helps.

That aside re childcare, look at these: www.childcare.co.uk/

www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare although you might (or might not if too high an earner) be eligible for tax-free childcare to help with costs

For the 5yo - their school will have info on after school clubs that they either manage in-house or outsource to another company, but the opening times of after-school clubs can differ school to school. Or a childminder is another option (see childcare.co.uk again to help find one).

Job and going part time - would you do your job as part of a job share in your role so you don't lose your career hard work so far? Do such roles exist in your area of expertise?

Savings - although you didn't ask, we struggled to find somewhere to accept us as rental tenants because we'd been abroad. We ended up having to pay a year rent upfront in cash on top of the usual deposit and a month rent in advance too. Massive outlay and our savings took a battering but it was the only way we could convince anyone to rent to us.

In your shoes I would explore transferring (if your firm can accommodate this) and work full time while the DH does childcare, at least to help the children adjust and give him a focus. Then review after 6m or so. I'd also get a cleaner, join local Facebook pages for the area you are repatriating to and join nextdoor.co.uk.

Good luck!

Thank you for your guidance, very much appreciated. Lots to think about. Will be back, just battling kids’ bedtime over here in HK!

Wraparound for school children is sporadic. If your child's school has wraparound care then it will likely be open from 0730 or 8am to the start of school, then end of school to either 5pm - 6pm. Maybe a childminder might be an option. You need to consider the school holidays. Some childminders are able to take children in the holidays. There might be holiday clubs open but most only offer a school day 9am-3pm. I am in another big town in the UK and childcare is a headache. I'm not in a financial position to consider a nanny.

Gosh so what are parents supposed to doooo?! It just seems so unfair like the assumption of the system is that everyone has a stay at home
spouse to handle everything else. I mean even the most standard mid level associate in a law firm would find it hard to pick up kids by 6pm on the dot (requiring them to leave work by 5pm and then log on after kids are in bed)

so what are parents supposed to doooo?!

Parents pay for childcare, and adjust their working hours accordingly. If you can’t get home in time for after school clubs then you employ a nanny.

I would say though that I don’t know anyone doing your job (and, through uni contacts I know a fair few) who has done that work children and a full time working spouse. Mainly because the one working earns enough money not to need two incomes but also needs the flexibility of covering sick days / holidays / wrap around.

also, to be fair, you DO have a stay at home spouse at the minute, your husband.

what’s prompting the move back to the UK? It sounds full of downsides!

Thank you, PotteringAlong.

I have painted a picture of many downsides without meaning to (probably having a day where I am wondering what we are doing!) but our expat journey was meant to last two years only and nearly 11 years later here we are, having missed many milestones back home and my parents are not getting any younger.

I suspect what you will have to do is adjust your expectations massively re:childcare. What you are not going to get, in London, is what you have now. Namely massively flexible, massively on tap, massively cheap childcare.

You can absolutely have that. But you are going to have to pay for it. And pay a lot.

What about bringing a nanny with you? You’d have to pay minimum wage here but that would be cheaper than average London nanny wages and more for them by the sounds of it.

You will need a nanny, or at least you will when DH goes back to work. Every woman I know with a similar job to yours has one. 5 year olds don't want to be at school after 5pm, even if that is offered. They get tired - that is too long a day every day. You need care for half term, school hols and sick days. Presumably there will be some evening work/functions too.

@LawyerMumAsia I wouldn't say you definitely need a nanny. DH both have senior roles in law (I'm a GC in house and he's a finance partner in a pretty big firm) and our DC was in nursery full time until he started school in September last year. He goes to after school club 5 days a week, a private one that runs until 6.30 and the one at his school which runs until 6. We don't use breakfast club.

What really helps is us both WFH two (different) days a week so that 4 out of 5 days the person who is WFH can do pick up and drop off and the other can work a longer day in the office. The fifth day we juggle it.

We both work long hours and it can be stressful but it's been manageable so far. We use holiday clubs in school holidays but not sure how we'll cope with the summer holidays!

We're fortunate in that our DC goes to a (state) school with good after school provision plus theres a private after school club in the area - other schools we know nearby do not have this level of availability (one only has enough spaces in after school club for 10% of pupils - clearly not many kids have 2 FT working parents)!

So it's not straightforward but it's working for us. If it gets too hard we'll look at the nanny route, but just to show it can be done without a nanny. The after school clubs cost about £450 a month.

I have been in asia for 10 years and have been working as a lawyer full time since I arrived (some of which was spent as a paralegal and trainee).

Are you trained /qualified in British law?

Assuming you have the money, I would suggest you find a house big enough to accommodate an au pair or live-in nanny. It isn't just after school. It is all day during the school holidays too.

Post Brexit getting an au pair is pretty much a no go.

Have you looked at earnings and accommodation costs?
Unless your savings are massive they may go quickly on a 3 day a week lawyer with your experience salary in London.

Sounds like you have it made! As one parent doesn’t have a job yet, and the children are relatively small, he can look after them whilst looking for a job - and has the luxury of finding one that fits school hours.

I don’t think the Uk is set up for a parent to stay with the children each day, nobody really can afford that now. But if that’s something you’d like, it seems you’ll have a good set up, if you can afford just for you to work.

Have you spoken to others who have moved from HK?
144,000 at the last count? 3 families in our road alone.

Well you will have to do what most both parents working families do & either have to juggle it around after school clubs ( which can be stressful ) or a nanny & just pay , or when the youngest is old enough an au pair ( which is cheaper but comes with obligations & au pairs are not nannies & shouldn't be treated so ) .

It's hard @LawyerMumAsia But it is the way it works here - I would research what au pairs are allowed to do at what age . I think they are not allowed to be in sole charge of those under two. But a good au pair ( and there is a different question ) can be brilliant for walking children home from school & some tea and being a nice friendly person but they work very very limited hours and you have obligations to them . Very much cheaper than a nanny but need bed and board , payment and time off for studies. We had a fantastic one but that was luck - a friend had a 3rd baby and the au-air could not do that so she came to stay with us & was fantastic. Not sure where I would start from scratch

I wish you well thou and you will not be alone with this dilemma

Thank you all, this is very helpful. Our ideal position to get to is : both parents working FT but for me to have one year off first. DH is on board with that IF he can get a job quickly, which is most unlikely. So the practical reality may indeed be : me working FT immediately and DH being SAHD until he finds something.

I have kept in close touch with family and friends in London during my time away but none are city lawyers and all are happy to be SAHMs so I don’t have a lot of insight into what life can be like for people who need to work past 3pm. However I am aware of how London is certainly not like Asia re childcare etc. I was looking to drill this down a bit and it seems from your helpful guidance that in short - you either hire a nanny or have some support at home.

Yes it will certainly be hard to return. I don’t think my career progression would have accelerated at anywhere near the speed it has done in Asia, with children in tow. I return with the ability to secure a decent job so in light of my DH’s less easy ability to secure something I should Probably just accept that my ‘’one year off’’ needs to be parked for now.

Many thanks for the detail re au pairs. That’s useful to know. I don’t think it will quite work for our family if both DH and I are working FT in city jobs as we would need some wrap around care but can certainly be something to think about if I am part time

Hi@JW13 I have just spotted your post, many thanks. Very good to hear a positive story coming from a fellow senior lawyer, and that’s great that you’ve managed to cobble together a good set up that doesn’t involve a nanny.

I am in-house working in banking law, and am English law qualified. My DH is 10 years older than me, also in-house now (MD). In light of his age it is that much harder to get something new. Whereas as a mid level I will find it less difficult. Having said all this the market in london is, whilst definitely hard to break into (we know), nevertheless wider. In Asia if you’re not doing banking then it’s uncommon. Whereas in london
there is a whole host of in-house type jobs. The last thing I need is him getting very down from finding it hard to get work so if he can get anything- any kind of in-house role or axiom type thing then whatever it pays - at least it keeps him positive and up to speed with the london market.

it is going to be very hard for us to move, emotionally leaving friends and financially and also getting my son used to a local government school (not being snobby, I went to a state school in london for my full education right up to and including a level but right now my DS goes to a beautiful international school in Asia). I think we will be ok and are very much aware of the higher tax less childcare options but ultimately we are not the only ones!

thank you again, to all <3 I think we just need to find the right network

@GreatContinental i haven’t spoken to others no, I will try to connect possibly through Facebook groups? Let me know if you know of any useful groups for that. Thank you!

Absolutely this. Welcome to the world of non-exploitation in terms of childcare. What happens in Asia is disgusting.

@Kranke thank you, it would certainly be good to find a job during school hours but the world of banking law is not very conducive to that. I want to avoid taking on a job that is supposed to be part time but ends up being full time but with a big cut in salary.