4 day working week … for schools.

[AutumnIsHere21]

Inspired by another thread discussing the merits of a three day weekend and following on from the results of a study which concluded that a four day working week (for full time pay) had numerous benefits for employers and employees.

I just wondered how people would feel if schools followed suit and were only open Monday-Thursday.

Full disclosure: I’m a teacher so - obviously - would be very much in favour! 😆

Including parts of Scotland.

Oh, didn't realise this had run to 8 pages. Sure that has been said.

A significant proportion of kids wouldn't cope with longer days

I think school day should stay the same in length as well as holidays.

Kids are so pressured at school they’d do better on 4 days. What’s sauce for the parents is sauce for the kids surely?

27 years a teacher

If kids were in 4 days you'd need to create a whole new industry of termtime school-age childcare and it would need to be at least part-funded. Otherwise we'd be having millions (of women, of course) dropping a day in sectors where we're already struggling for staff.

If 9-5 jobs go 4 days there's no guarantee they'd be able to choose the day the school was closed.

I really think that less but more focused academic time in schools taught by teachers, but combined with longer days provided by sports coaches/ homework clubs/ drama/ forest school could be way of the future. These don’t need to provided by qualified teachers so won’t be as expensive. They can be fun/ relaxing for children and also provide childcare for parents.

This is the problem. I actually really love the idea of a 4 day school week in principle. Not based on anything other than my feelings, but 5 days always seemed a lot. But we have a system where school is an essential part of our childcare system. So very much less gets done when the schools are shut. We saw this during lockdown, and also on the impromptu bank holiday for the queen's funeral. In my sector less gets done in the school holidays too. It's not just parents either, can extend to other family members too.

It's a real shame though.

What do you mean - "wouldn't cope"? They would cope, they'd adapt, they'd get used to it. Why is it kids in many other countries can cope with a longer school day but British kids can't?

In France there is a 'whole industry of term time school-age childcare' and it is very much funded by the taxpayer. In primary (up to age 11) the school day can be extended to run from 07h30 to 18h00. The morning, lunchtime and after-school 'garderies' are run in-school but not by teachers, so the teachers basically leave at the end of the school day and the garderie staff take over. That's not to say this is great for really young children, but it's there.

Outside of school, for parents that prefer their kids to be picked up and brought home, there is an army of nounous (nannys) and childminders all of whom are validated by and subsidised by the state.

Once children are 11-12 and in middle / lower secondary, it's pretty much assumed that they are capable of getting themselves to and from school and able to be home alone after school. So childcare needs fall away after primary.

Generally, unless you want your child to have a specific private nursery or nanny arrangement, childcare costs are not an issue in France, though the logistics can be and tbh not all parents want to be away from their kids all day, every day. But the provision of state-funded childcare is utterly normal here, and seen as an issue of equality: it enables both parents to participate equally in the workforce if that's what they want to do (we all know that the vast bulk of unpaid childcare falls to mothers, not fathers).

Our KS1 children are working solidly from 8.45-3.25 each day with only lunch and a short morning break. They do 7 lessons a day.

I wonder if countries with longer days have less packed in.

I think the problem here at the moment would be more about who's going to do those jobs. We already have problems providing enough wraparound childcare, and there's no reason to suppose that demand would lead to supply because it isn't working like that for a lot of roles in our economy as things stand.

I don’t particularly want longer days but also not shorter weeks / less time overall

The amount of time is ok

Your post reads a bit like I was saying that the lack of the above is a reason why 4 days can't happen (although extended funded childcare wouldn't under the Tories in a million years). I'm just pointing out that termtime childcare in school hours, so not after school or breakfast club, doesn't exist at the moment.

And yes, I agree there's nobody to do it, as a PP said. I said "create" because the existing preschool childminder network wouldn't cope.

@MarshaBradyo

Yeah, I agree.

I don't really get people who struggle with full time work. (disability aside)

Although I definitely think we need to move away from the Mon to Fri 9-5 model.

Longer days or more flexibility should be introduced

@Fluffyowl00 Definitely not a conservative researcher. Just a teacher who was curious about others’ opinions.

@MrsMikeDrop I didn’t say I thought schools should only be open four days. I was merely interested in what others thought about the idea. I teach English at a secondary school and (with my teacher head on) echo many of the concerns others have voiced re. curriculum content.

However, I’m also a normal human being and not one of these superhero teachers who is happy to put the needs of everyone else’s children above my own so I’d quite like to work only four days for full pay! I fully appreciate this is as likely as pigs flying but would I be a bit miffed if other sectors implemented the recommendations of the study but the education system didn’t? Yes I would! 😆Professionally, I can see a number of issues; personally, I can see only benefits!

@AutumnIsHere21

Given that lots of teachers say they work 14 hour days 7 days a week and still can't keep up with the work, how on earth would you be able to take a day off?

@Chocchops72 these are already less than the hours I work and my children have to go to nursery for those hours. I’d happily teach for those hours but I wouldn’t then do the additional hours needed. Someone on TV said yesterday teachers are working 9-4 at most. My school starts at 8.35 and runs till 3.30, in reality I do 7.30-4.30 every day so I’d much rather teach and be paid for those contact hours.

Hi,
I have been thinking a lot about this lately. My son just started school last year and honestly I’m just feeling like the system isn’t fair for working parents, kids or teachers.
Both myself and my husband work full time management jobs and need to to live but also have no flexibility with working hours as we are in each of our premises. We have had to commit to the fact we will spend on average £7000 per year on childcare when our daughter goes to school too (We are more at the moment with her in nursery!) We also have to deal with them going to after school club or miraculously finding a childminder which isn’t something we have managed at the moment as no one wants these hours of after school care.
Ideally I would like to propose a school week of Monday-Thursday 9-5 or 8.30-4.30 and a Friday off. Seems a no brainer to be honest. I am just not sure how teachers hours work etc but surely an admin day on a Friday would be great! This would save the schools on payroll. Electric, food, toilet roll etc to name but a few things. Thus would also allow the working parent to feel less guilty, more relaxed and productive in their jobs and the kids would find it great instead of being passed from pillar to post. Also the added benefit of how much money the working parent would save is phenomenal.
I really want to start a petition on this but I’m not sure where to start.
There are some comments that this is too long a day for children but my kids went from being at private nursery 4 days a week 9-5 having the best time to school on a much shorter day. They never felt this day was too long and I’m sure schools are innovative enough to incorporate out door play or physical skills into the day to have fun with this.
It just seems the school system is still designed for 1 working parent but with mortgages and life as expensive as it is now this cannot be the cases in a huge majority of families.
please do let me know if anyone feels the same, or not 🤗

So if Friday is a non school day, where do children go on a Friday? A full day in childcare?

Yes its a good idea.
Teachers have the most holidays out of all professions but their hols are not hols but working/preparing hols

I thought a teachers job was holidays galore until I met an ex-teacher

I think secondary school kids could be in 4 days and do some work at home on the 5th day - allowing the teachers paid time to mark and plan. It's completely unacceptable that they are expected to do this in their own time.

I'm not a teacher so haven't a clue - but surely rather than worrying about teaching hours matching the curriculum- the curriculum needs to be designed to fit the teaching hours?

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Yes of course if needed. This would be much more available as clubs would thrive on offering this full day instead of trying to find staff to work 1 hour am and 2.45 hours pm in after school clubs.
In our family we currently cover the Friday anyway as my kid goes to school in Edinburgh, they are in 8.45-12.15 which is so pointless. So I am off Friday one week and my husband is off the next Friday but we can work weekend days. A lot of the parents at our school do flexi working from home in a Friday and so they do this around the kids. It’s much easier to manage and much like the schedule we worked to when the kids were both in private nursery.
it is what private school work to as well but they offer this 5 days a week.

Yes of course if needed. This would be much more available as clubs would thrive on offering this full day instead of trying to find staff to work 1 hour am and 2.45 hours pm in after school clubs.
In our family we currently cover the Friday anyway as my kid goes to school in Edinburgh, they are in 8.45-12.15 which is so pointless. So I am off Friday one week and my husband is off the next Friday but we can work weekend days. A lot of the parents at our school do flexi working from home in a Friday and so they do this around the kids. It’s much easier to manage and much like the schedule we worked to when the kids were both in private nursery.
it is what private school work to as well but they offer this 5 days a week.

Can’t see it working with parents having to spend more money on childcare for a full day on Friday as well as still paying for breakfast and after school clubs Mon - Thurs.