4 day working week … for schools.

[AutumnIsHere21]

Inspired by another thread discussing the merits of a three day weekend and following on from the results of a study which concluded that a four day working week (for full time pay) had numerous benefits for employers and employees.

I just wondered how people would feel if schools followed suit and were only open Monday-Thursday.

Full disclosure: I’m a teacher so - obviously - would be very much in favour! 😆

4 days where the children are taught by a teacher, then 1 day where they are taught by specialist providers - eg PE, Art, Music, RE, PHSE. Include some element of choice.

Lots of 4 day workplaces still cover services for more days but just the staff have different days off. How would that work for schools? It would need to be the same days and would increase pressure for childcare spaces too where parents aren't on 4 day weeks,

Those subjects are taught by teachers or at least they were at my 3 sons' 3 different schools.

Healthcare does this already so its not an issu there for those posting it would be. Most staff do 3 or 4 long days. It's better for continuity and allows later pm clinics in my case. I think it would work well for older kids not sure about primary

So the kids do all the "nice" stuff all in one go on one day, and then for 4 days straight they do the hard slog of the academic stuff? I take it you don't know many children? There are plenty who just don't like, and will never like, the academics at school. They'd be the ones who always turned up on the 5th "fun" day, and they'd be refusing to go on the other days. Getting kids to concentrate, or even turn up for, a full day without any PE or art etc to break up the slog of maths, English and science would be my worst nightmare.

If every teacher had a day to plan, mark and prep etc. It really could work. With a full day free of disturbances they could potentially be a lot more effective in the four days they do have. Certainly in primary I could see the benefits. Or even having the support staff running some extracurricular activities on a Friday, sports, crafts, local trips etc. It could be a lovely way to help round the education experience.

The reality would be that it wasn't funded properly, wasn't organised properly and probably ends up asking more from staff but less pay. So no in practice I think it would be a disaster.

@MistressIggi

Teachers are not a homogeneous mass that can be liked or disliked.

You can't argue that schools are education not childcare while try to justify providing less education.

If teachers think that kids being in 4 days a week with current hours and holidays is enough (given the poor attainment rates we currently have I'm not convinced but teachers will know better) to provide a good standard of education fair enough

But I do think they'd have a cheek to want full pay for it, unless they still worked the same hours

But given that teachers already say they have to work masses more hours than 9-3 term time, I can't see how this would benefit well being

I agree with this. Worst part of my day, as a parent, is working all day and then trying to get my kids who have been learning all day motivated to do another 45 mins of work.

@jamimmi

I wouldn't want my kids in school for 12 hours a day.

I'd love it in principle, 5 days always felt like a lot for the little ones especially.

In practice, we have a society where school also has a childcare function, so I can see how many people that would be a problem for.

Yo would very much support (for secondary age) 4 full days (8-5) to include a decent amount of sport or other extra-curricular activities as part of the standard school day (so children who have to use school transport to get home from school can be included). I would expect at least part of the 5th day to be used for self-directed home learning for the kids rather than 3 days 'off'.

For someone who says teachers aren't a homogenous mass to be liked or disliked, your posts ooze generalised contempt for teachers.

The school near me who is doing it is paying staff for five days but they work for four. TAs and staff not on teacher pay and conditions can ask to do overtime if they wish and will then be paid for 6 days a week for working 5. Kids will all be in 5 days a week.

Presumably with the intention of the staff having a pay cut by 20%? Otherwise how would they fund staff to cover the fifth day?

No. As I’ve said on the thread already, a school I was in this week are doing it and still paying staff a full wage. They know it means higher wage bills but they are hoping for increased retention and lower supply costs.

@Sherrystrull

Hardly.

If the scheme would mean less work for teachers (which is what they say they need) then great

But I don't think you can do less work for the same pay.

Or is this to be rolled out to everyone?

Will all workers be given an extra day off on the same pay?

How much extra tax would that cost?

How much would prices go up?

This has been in the news a lot recently. Google it. Loads of companies are doing it after trials showed improved productivity and reduced sickness.

I would be absolutely delighted for my son if his school did this. I would be all for it, but only if it didn’t increase the school day as it is. He comes home exhausted on Friday, I don’t think you really get a chance to relax and unwind on a 2 day weekend. I don’t think it will work in this country realistically though as what childcare will be put in place for working parents?

My workplace are going to bring in a 4 day week but working longer days unfortunately 😅

It would only work if children were in school 5 days (to cover all the curriculum) but teachers only worked 4 days. Those 4 days would differ between teachers. They would still get a full-time wage.

I think it would benefit teachers (and other industries too) to have staff who are more rested and less stressed. I expect it would reduce sickness too.

No thanks I’m ok with five

That's really interesting and I'd be interested to see how it plays out long term.

It's an interesting proposal. I can see lots of benefits to staff wellbeing and retention if thus was made possible. I would like to work in a school that offered this work pattern.
I forsee all sorts of logistical issues.

Many countries in Europe manage a 4.5 day school week, with Wednesday afternoons off.

Not just in Europe. Private schools in the UK do, or they did when I was at school.

Universities do the same. No teaching on Wednesday afternoons, although the teaching day runs into the early evening on other days.

In primary, being taught by the class teacher 5 mornings plus 3 afternoons covering Maths, English, Reading, Science and whatever specialisms teachers have plus 2 afternoons of PE/Art type activities would be preferable. Staff would have 2 afternoons PPA. I don't think a whole day of PPA would work. Too much time to plan and mark without it being able to feed into the teaching.

@Tygertiger

Thanks, I read an article.

Im not sure how it would work in lots of roles.

I couldn't do mine in a day less. And we don't have enough staff to cover the hours we need as it is.