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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To refuse to stay at work late?

272 replies

Onlyyours · 04/03/2023 10:36

I’m a teacher. Due to strikes a parents evening has been rearranged, but I had plans for that evening.

Am I within my rights to refuse to do it, given the circumstances?

OP posts:
GrinAndVomit · 04/03/2023 14:20

I think it would be perfectly reasonable for you to offer telephone appointments or zoom meetings for a few evenings a week to make up for it.
Parents who insist on speaking in person can come straight after school.

Good luck!

IsItThough · 04/03/2023 14:25

Looking at what NG has posted though - it makes exception for circumstances, and its reasonable to assume that the strike, and something as essential as a parents eve, would be considered one of those occasions, and your Head will know that.

It's poor that you were not told before it was all arranged.

I am sure that your Union would back you esp as due to the strike (which I as parent of 3 100% support ), but it depends if you want that hassle and bad feeling with your boss, or if you can come up with another solution to deliver the directed time requirement. ^^ pp had good suggestion re online over a couple of alternative eves.

Cosyblankets · 04/03/2023 14:27

IsItThough · 04/03/2023 14:25

Looking at what NG has posted though - it makes exception for circumstances, and its reasonable to assume that the strike, and something as essential as a parents eve, would be considered one of those occasions, and your Head will know that.

It's poor that you were not told before it was all arranged.

I am sure that your Union would back you esp as due to the strike (which I as parent of 3 100% support ), but it depends if you want that hassle and bad feeling with your boss, or if you can come up with another solution to deliver the directed time requirement. ^^ pp had good suggestion re online over a couple of alternative eves.

But it does say in consultation with staff
Doesn't look like there's been consultation

noblegiraffe · 04/03/2023 14:28

Looking at what NG has posted though - it makes exception for circumstances

And it says that the change needs to be made in consultation with staff and unions.

This hasn't happened, it has been imposed. Staff who are unable to make it should be offered an alternative.

BlackFriday · 04/03/2023 14:30

Also, if the Head is not supposed to have rescheduled the consultation due to the strike, will s/he really want the spotlight put on this? If so, I would hope that they agree to your plan and let it go.

Onlyyours · 04/03/2023 14:30

Thanks @noblegiraffe . Really appreciate that.

Trust me, I will need the legal backup. Otherwise they’ll just say no.

OP posts:
T1Dmama · 04/03/2023 14:31

coeurnoir · 04/03/2023 14:17

My husband is a headteacher of a large secondary. He's got 12 teachers leaving at Easter - 3 English teachers, 5 science, 2 PE and 2 MFL.
A further 6 have already said that they are considering leaving at the end of the year. Three of those are science teachers which will leave him with just 2 teachers in that department.
None of the ones leaving are going to another teaching position.
My husband says he is going to do another full year and will then leave himself, but I don't think he'll make it to Christmas personally.
I'm the daughter of a teacher, I've had two kids go through school and DH and I have been married 15 years, so for a non teacher I've seen a lot - this is the worst it has ever been.

How terrifying it is that so much skill and experience is leaving the profession.
I can’t believe senior schools these days… my 12 year old is terrified at school because of other kids behaviours and the total lack of authority in schools. Our head teacher is leaving at the end of the academic year after only 2 years as head!… he seems to have had some sort of burn out!
Im terrified for our children’s future education and am not generally a supporter of strikes.. but my god I fully support the ones striking for better working conditions and better funding for the education system and NHS!
My sister trained in the U.K. and was a top scale nurse is cardiac and thoracic emergency care… she left 10 years ago to work in another country … The government should be doing more to keep the experience and skills of teachers and nurses here!
As a country we’ve cut so much funding in crucial services like these, plus social services, the police, MOD, our country needs these strikes to make us all aware and to pressure the government to act!
Its currently a disgrace how the country is run…. Why can’t politicians be normal working people who know what the majority live with daily…. Not people born with a silver spoon in their mouths and not a clue about us normal people having to live hand to mouth and budget every bloody penny

QuackMooBaaOink · 04/03/2023 14:41

We all know teaching operates 90% on goodwill, and like most teachers, it sounds like you would be more than happy to accommodate this change if you were able to.
Taken from NEU website, this is their stance:

All schools should have a calendar of the activities which make up teachers’ directed time – published in the summer term for the next academic year and consulted on with staff via trade unions. They should also give each teacher their own personal directed time calendar showing their individual commitments.
Schools should not allocate the maximum 1,265 hours to each teacher – they are advised to allow a contingency in order to cover unexpected additional events and commitments (though these should be rare and subject to consultation with staff).

NEU reps/members should ask their head or leadership team for the directed time calendars for both individuals and departments with the school’s calculation of directed time during the summer term term (if it has not been provided) and ensure staff are consulted before it is implemented.

I would start by having a reasonable conversation with your headteacher to see if you can mutually agree an alternative, and if not then it probably needs to be a conversation with your union. Teachers don't have the option of booking leave, and it is completely absurd to suggest that you can never book an event, concert, theatre, meal, night away, INCASE directed time is changed.

Hopefully your headteacher will be reasonable about it anyway and you won't need to push further. An option to avoid having parents back in would be to do it via teams/phone instead?

lieselotte · 04/03/2023 14:43

CalistoNoSolo · 04/03/2023 11:00

Whether or not its within your rights to refuse, it's a pretty shitty thing to do imo.

I don't know who you are calling pretty shitty but if the OP has plans, she has plans.

She has arranged things around her work.

Teachers don't get paid enough to miss events and things they've paid for.

OP I'd simply say you have plans and can't make that evening.

lieselotte · 04/03/2023 14:45

And what it's worth, I have been to parents evenings where not all teachers have been available. It didn't occur to me to think that was unreasonable or strange I just assumed they couldn't make the evening concerned for whatever reason. I think we were offered a phone call if there was something important we wanted to discuss.

Onlyyours · 04/03/2023 14:46

I think @CalistoNoSolo might have meant it was shitty of the school.

Although there is a certain amount of gleeful schadenfreude with some replies, along the lines of well my life was made difficult because of the strikes so I’m glad yours is being made difficult, even though it had nothing to do with me on a personal level: I didn’t strike Hmm

OP posts:
dapsnotplimsolls · 04/03/2023 14:46

If you don't think your school rep will be any use, you might want to go straight to your regional rep.

lieselotte · 04/03/2023 14:47

Survey99 · 04/03/2023 13:57

How does that work? If the work that was planned during a strike day was to teach a specific topic, do you just leave a gap in the learning and move onto the next lessons?

I think the strike is a red herring here.

Lessons happen during normal working hours.

A parent's evening does not, so a teacher may have other plans.

donquixotedelamancha · 04/03/2023 14:47

Trust me, I will need the legal backup. Otherwise they’ll just say no.

They can say what they want but they can't make you just turn up. That's the whole point of receiving the calendar and directed time budget at the start of the year- you can't request time off so it allows you to plan well in advance.

emptythelitterbox · 04/03/2023 14:52

Just make some excuse why you can't be there. Gastro, sick relative, etc.

Onlyyours · 04/03/2023 14:53

It doesn’t make a difference.

OP posts:
Purple444 · 04/03/2023 14:56

@Onlyyours
I totally agree- you have had some ill thought-out replies. Those who commented that their life was made difficult due to the strikes will be the first to complain when their teenager doesn’t have a qualified Science teacher.

You’ve also had some good advice in the replies here. I hope you manage to find a resolution.

ivykaty44 · 04/03/2023 14:57

parents evening is a tick box exercise that should be banned.

if there is something going wrong then teachers should email for a meeting

Targetted · 04/03/2023 14:57

I think you need to tell the head you can't attend and what you'll offer instead, see what the response is and go from there with any legal advice as needed. You/union can't respond to a situation until you know what it is.

If it's "just" s/he demands you attend, raise a grievance and ask for union support.

Also apply elsewhere.

ilovesooty · 04/03/2023 14:58

emptythelitterbox · 04/03/2023 14:52

Just make some excuse why you can't be there. Gastro, sick relative, etc.

Terrible idea and no need to lie.

I suspect this headteacher won't be understanding of the fact that the OP has other commitments, and she's concerned that s/he will target her if she hasn't been able to establish a clear legal position.

ReadersD1gest · 04/03/2023 14:59

Onlyyours · 04/03/2023 10:54

Reasonable notice is arranged at the start of the year - I’m not sure four weeks is reasonable notice. I wouldn’t refuse to go if I had no plans just for the sake of being awkward, but I genuinely have spent a not-inconsiderable amount on concert tickets!

Four weeks seems perfectly reasonable notice.

ilovesooty · 04/03/2023 15:00

ReadersD1gest · 04/03/2023 14:59

Four weeks seems perfectly reasonable notice.

It might "seem" so to you but it's been repeatedly explained why it isn't.

ReadersD1gest · 04/03/2023 15:02

ilovesooty · 04/03/2023 15:00

It might "seem" so to you but it's been repeatedly explained why it isn't.

It isn't to op... That doesn't mean it isn't in the real world. Four weeks notice is utter luxury in most professions.

Survey99 · 04/03/2023 15:02

lieselotte · 04/03/2023 14:47

I think the strike is a red herring here.

Lessons happen during normal working hours.

A parent's evening does not, so a teacher may have other plans.

I absolutely agree with the op if the date is rearranged and they cannot attend for personal reasons then they should be able to say they cannot attend, but an alternative needs to be sorted out as connecting with parents to support their pupils education should be considered important.

Thread title from any professional should be AIBU To offer an alternative solution rather than AIBU To refuse to stay at work late?

MrsHamlet · 04/03/2023 15:03

Can I suggest you do your rep training? My head is much less of an arse now I am a rep

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