Nightclub took DDs epipens

[anaphyl4xis]

My DD - 18 and a 1st year uni student - went to a nightclub last night and they refused to let her keep her epipens on her. They said if she needed them
She had to go to the medical room.

She was with a group of friends and had all paid to get in and the venue also refused to refund if they decided not to go in.

AIBU to be absolutely livid and to follow this up with the company.

For context my daughter has a life threatening allergy to nuts - but not peanuts.

Not making anything up. The reports of spiking are mostly from people who don’t realise they’ve been injected or their drink spiked until they become unwell. You can’t do that with an epipen, because you have to follow a process and you would definitely know you had been injected - that’s how I and most people posting from experience know epipens are not responsible.

No, you didn’t actually say medication should be taken away, but given that these medications are administered by needle, saying you would feel more comfortable knowing there were no needles or syringes of any kind may be a different statement, but it’s essentially saying the same thing. And I’m not making issues where there aren’t any. I’ve been in a situation where a friend was asked to hand over insulin before being admitted to a club, or they would have been refused entry. It’s illegal, and it breaches the rights of disabled people. I don’t know what the solution is either, but laying the problem at the door of disabled people by confiscating essential medication is not it.

Epipens or insulin pens are not responsible for spiking - the sick fucks who do this are. Someone who gets a thrill from spiking drinks in a club will get a bigger thrill from injecting instead which is why it is seemingly increasing.
Do I want my DC to be at risk of being spiked? No, of course not. Do I want DC to die from a hypo because security took their 'kit' bag? No definitely not. The fact remains that my DC is still at a greater risk of having a hypo than being spiked.

Hey Rainbow, you've misread my post or tagged the wrong poster. I'm vehemently against confiscating epipens, my daughter carries them.

@JenniferBarkley so I have. Sorry about that!

No worries :)

Thankfully (or not) my DC19 is actually too terrified to go clubbing/gigging on their own because of the fear of having their medical stuff taken by security.

And that one sentence sums it all up. Someone with a health condition or a disability is entitled to the same enjoyment of life as someone without that condition. And these ignorant and discriminatory door policies are interfering with that, despite long fought for, and hard won legislation.

Spot on.

No, I think the issue with schools is that some seem to take the epipen away from the pupil and keep it in the medical room. There have been a couple of instances where staff have been unable to find the pen and the child has died as a result. I think the point being made there was that the school should have a spare, and the child themselves should have the pen on them once they reach an age where they are able to use it themselves.

I'd support your daughter in taking it further, absolutely. Having the EpiPen far from the person who needs it can obviously be life threatening.
Whilst 18 is obviously old enough to take it further I can see why she may need support in making the complaint, and like you say, it's a wider issue.

To the pp who mentioned schools - schools absolutely should not be locking epipens or life saving medication in a medical room. It should be with the pupil and spares in a medical room.

I understand nightclubs have a duty to try and prevent spiking, but removing life saving medication from people who need it absolutely shouldn't be an option!!!

If you got 'spiked' with an epipen you would know about it straight away - the needle is part of the pen and you have to 'punch' the pen into the thigh to get the needle to even emerge.

You CANNOT surreptitiously inject someone with an epipen - and I don't believe you can doctor one either (to remove the adrenaline and replace with something else) as they are sealed units.

Reply from anaphylaxis.org

Thanks for your email and call about this and sorry to hear that this happened to your daughter. We completely understand your concerns and have been monitoring the situation since auto injectors were first linked to the spiking in nightclubs issue in 2021.

One of our clinical advisors Professor Adam Fox actually appeared on 'This Morning' when it was previously in the media and spoke about how difficult it would be to tamper with auto injectors as they are sealed units. As far as we know there has been no actual evidence of auto injectors being used in a spiking case.

If your daughter does not already carry an allergy action plan with her auto injectors it may be worth thinking about as this could be used to show that they have been prescribed to her, or perhaps carry a doctor's letter that says she must have them with her wherever she goes, much as you might carry when travelling abroad.

We have a newly re-designed adult allergy action plan here:-
https://www.anaphylaxis.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/ADULT-ALLERGY-ACTION-PLAN.pdff_

They absolutely should not be removed from her at any time. It might be worth directing the nightclub concerned to our online resources and helpline.

That would be incredibly hard these days!! The pens and needles are separate and need attaching before use. I’m pretty sure if primary age children can carry their medication in a class if 30 kids then an adult is responsible enough.
There are actually legal consequences to taking away someone’s medication… thankfully people these days are protected by laws that uni friend wouldn’t have been.

I think, it's becoming pretty clear that the nightclub were in the wrong, even in spite of the spiking issues. That said, I don't think it'd be a bad idea to carry a doctor's note.

My point was that an Epipen in its entirety - the autoinjector plus the adrenaline inside it - is classed as and regulated as a medicine, not as a Medical Device. it has a PL number not a CE mark (now PLGB/UKCA thanks Brexit).

Anyway, pedantry aside, the whole reason I mentioned it is because this makes me question even more whether it’s legal for a random security person to take possession of it (there are specific laws about this), quite aside from the whole disability discrimination and plain old safety issues.

Quite a few layers, and it’s pretty upsetting to see how this clear and present problem for people with medical conditions requiring them to carry injectable medicines is being sidelined because of unevidenced claims about spiking using autoinjectors or insulin pens. It’s just not feasible. I’m not going to speculate about other more simple mechanisms for obvious reasons.

It's not essentially the same thing at all. If I wanted to say 'I think all syringes and needles should be confiscated upon entry', then that's what I would have said. I didn't want to say that as that's not what I think, hence I didn't say that. What I said (3rd time lucky...) is that I'm more comfortable with no needles /syringes BUT I don't know what the solution is.

I understood the chemist packaged pens in a box with the label on and these had been separated from the chemists packaging

ff@Ro@Rosscameasdoody

I would go straight to the local licensing officer and the police representative for the area that their license was issued in. This information will be listed on their licence.

Glad they've already got back to you Ana.

Epi pens don’t need the needle attaching, they are a single unit. And yes, I know there are legal consequences to taking away medication - I’ve posted about it until I’m sick !!

Apologies, I misunderstood - agree with you wholeheartedly.

I would complain they have put your daughters life at risk , they have a duty of care , you should talk to the manager and explain to him that by doing this he could end up on a manslaughter charge and serving time in prison

We agree to disagree then. I think we’re essentially on the same side, but I admit I take it a lot more personally as I’ve been at the receiving end of this. There’s no point in having legislation to stop this kind of thing if establishments are going to ignore it at will. The fact is, that the club’s actions are illegal, and the OP has the backing of the law to get them to change their door policy as it actively discriminates.

My epipens are packed individually in the cardboard box with the label on the outside when I collect them from the pharmacy. The pens themselves are labelled with the same information as is on the box. I keep one on me at all times, outside the packaging and ready for use. I also have an ID card outlining the reason for the medication. Essential medication like this should not be taken away from the person who needs it, and there is no excuse for the club to not be familiar with the law.

Epi pens don’t need the needle attaching, they are a single unit.

@Rosscameasdoody

Judging by @T1Dmama's user name I think she's talking about insulin injection not epipens here.

Which the person would have to pay for, and which would need to be updated. There is absolutely no need for this if the club do their duty and familiarise themselves with the law. Disabled people are not responsible for this and are not responsible for providing a solution. This is scapegoating.