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AIBU?

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Original poster

Nightclub took DDs epipens

506 replies

anaphyl4xis · 04/03/2023 08:56

My DD - 18 and a 1st year uni student - went to a nightclub last night and they refused to let her keep her epipens on her. They said if she needed them
She had to go to the medical room.

She was with a group of friends and had all paid to get in and the venue also refused to refund if they decided not to go in.

AIBU to be absolutely livid and to follow this up with the company.

For context my daughter has a life threatening allergy to nuts - but not peanuts.

OP posts:
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5
CandleInTheStorm · 05/03/2023 21:16

I would also contact Natashas Law. This is really shocking!

SweetSakura · 05/03/2023 21:29

HollaHolla · 05/03/2023 20:54

Good point on the readiness needed. I had reason to use my EpiPens earlier this year, unfortunately. I noticed anaphylactic effects within 30-60 seconds of being exposed to my allergen. If my pens weren’t immediately available , I’d possibly be dead. Because that’s how urgent and serious this is. For those who don’t know that, and are suggesting other options, it really quick and frightening; we don’t need the additional stress of worrying we don’t have these with us.

Show quote history

When my son started secondary school they sent me their first aid plan and I had to red pen it in a number of places, particularly where they had that if he has signs of a reaction he would be taken to the first aid room .

No, the first aider goes the child.

It's one of a number of things that were badly handled by the school in Karanbir Cheema's death

Original poster
anaphyl4xis · 05/03/2023 21:31

The club doesn't appear to have a phone line - just a bookings line that just rings out. I've messaged anaphylaxis .org.uk to ask for support and will keep trying tomorrow.

Genuine thanks to all who understand why this is such a problem and sharing such useful info.

Correction to my earlier post where I said the manager put them in his bag - that was actually the person the door security said was the paramedic and when she went to get them he wasn't in the medical room.

OP posts:
cakeorwine · 05/03/2023 21:37

Nimbostratus100 · 05/03/2023 20:36

why not? The problem with epipens is they are so easily available, anyone could bring them into a night club and claim they are prescribed for them.

Show quote history

Really?

And then they open them up, remove the adrenaline, replace it with a spiking drug?

LangClegsInSpace · 05/03/2023 21:47

On parenting adult children:

I made a complaint against the police on behalf of my son when he was 24. He was illegally evicted and the police helped. DS wasn't really keen but he did a statement and I pursued the complaint in my own name.

I would have done that even without his consent or support because I knew those officers would be out every day, impacting other people's lives. I got a good outcome, the officers involved were sent on a course and invited to reflect on the way they interacted with the public.

DS could also have pursued a very strong civil case against his LL. He could have had an entire year's rent repaid very easily but he didn't want to pursue it, he just wanted to move on. Fair enough, I understand why, it's his loss, he's an adult and it didn't affect anyone else because the LL was selling up anyway.

Sometimes we fight for our kids' best interests and when they are adults we back off when they ask us to.

Sometimes we fight for everyone's interests because of something we've been made aware of because it happened to our child. I don't know OP or her daughter but I would be happy to make initial enquiries to this nightclub and to make a complaint, in the interests of the public.

Rainbowshit · 05/03/2023 21:57

anaphyl4xis · 05/03/2023 21:31

The club doesn't appear to have a phone line - just a bookings line that just rings out. I've messaged anaphylaxis .org.uk to ask for support and will keep trying tomorrow.

Genuine thanks to all who understand why this is such a problem and sharing such useful info.

Correction to my earlier post where I said the manager put them in his bag - that was actually the person the door security said was the paramedic and when she went to get them he wasn't in the medical room.

Thank you for taking it further and thank you for posting. It's not something if heard of before but seems like it's fairly common.

My DS is 16 so this is one more thing I'll have to worry about in the near future.

Would be interested to know joe you get on.

Mavis93 · 05/03/2023 22:00

First rule of anaphylaxis is not to run/ rush/ move too much as it increases heart rate thus making the reaction faster! I know this as a trained medical professional and also someone who has anaphylaxis so I would be lodging a formal complaint to this club as they clearly don’t understand the seriousness of this and need educating

Mavis93 · 05/03/2023 22:02

Also due to the nature of anaphylaxis it causes an impending sense of doom- so you do not think straight as you are fighting for your life so navigating to a medical room is not an option

AwkwardAnnie · 05/03/2023 22:14

familyissues12345 · 04/03/2023 09:50

No way!! My DS is first year Uni and carries Epipens too, he's never had them taken off him. Although he carries them very discretely - usually in the leg pocket of cargo trousers

My friend at 6th form carried an epi-pen. Whenever I went clubbing with him he'd ask me, or another female to hide the epi-pen down our cleavage until we got inside the club. He'd got fed up over the years of having to explain what it was for and why it was needed and we realised security staff never checked out cleavages when doing pat downs. 😁
I was a goth though so probably wore more clothes than many teens who go clubbing do now.

I'd definitely support your daughter to take this further as it seems like an accident waiting to happen.

stichguru · 05/03/2023 22:15

Yes it is different to holding a pen in a school office, because school is not a chaotic and noisy environment and you are with people who know you and aren't drugged drunk all the time. If someone in a school went poorly, it would be immediately noticed an acted upon, giving at least a minute or two for the epipen to be retrieved. In a club it's noisy, packed, you might end up without anyone who knew you. Someone might see you wobbly and incoherent and think you were just drunk. Also, even supposing that a child's teacher had stepped out the room, another kid would run and find them, or just scream and help would be there in seconds, in a club either someone would would need to find help, or it could take a few minutes for anyone to realise that the wailing was for help. Those mins would probably have taken it to the time when the epipen needed to be injected to prevent death, leaving no time for anyone to actually get it and bring it to the person before they died.

salcombebabe · 05/03/2023 22:16

anaphyl4xis · 04/03/2023 09:49

Because they check bags

And your second comment is just ridiculous and makes it clear you don't have a loved one with a extremely fast reacting life threatening allergy.

Would I be ok to complain if she died because of this rule or would that also be ridiculous?

Show quote history

I’d fight tooth and nail for my 26 year old son if this happened to him OP! They’re always our children no matter their age.

stichguru · 05/03/2023 22:22

No it's not - unless you expect the person with the allergy to stay seconds away from the medical room all night.

LangClegsInSpace · 05/03/2023 22:22

Nimbostratus100 · 05/03/2023 20:26

I was trying to think of a "solution" and the best I can come up with is the club putting the pens in some sort of container that has an alarm on it, then returning them to your daughter, so if she needs them she opens the container, and the alarm goes off. ideally both audible, and electronic, direct to security

This means that no one can be using the cover of an epipen to secretly spike anyone, as getting it out will be clearly audible and alert security

And has the added advantage of alerting security, and people around her, that your daughter is having an anaphylactic shock

So if such containers exist, great! If not, we need to invent them!

Yeah, that's a 'solution' for people who need an epipen. Sounding a massive fucking alarm is bound to make an anaphylactic shock attack easier to deal with Hmm

Or epipen users could just be allowed to keep their vital meds with them with the minimum of fuss.

Original poster
anaphyl4xis · 05/03/2023 22:26

I'll update with progress

It is horribly worrying - severe food allergies are stressful enough without having badly thought out policies separating people from their life saving prescription medicine.

The media coverage about spiking has been poorly researched and is definitely causing this situation. Anyone who has used an epipen knows it would be IMPOSSIBLE to covertly spike somebody with one.

OP posts:
YetMoreNewBeginnings · 05/03/2023 22:30

anaphyl4xis · 05/03/2023 22:26

I'll update with progress

It is horribly worrying - severe food allergies are stressful enough without having badly thought out policies separating people from their life saving prescription medicine.

The media coverage about spiking has been poorly researched and is definitely causing this situation. Anyone who has used an epipen knows it would be IMPOSSIBLE to covertly spike somebody with one.

It really is illogical.

a local club attempted to do that with my DD2’s epi-pen.

Same club didn’t bat an eyelid at DS1’s insulin pen - despite the fact that that has removable/changeable cartridges.

The difference was the doormen understood the need for insulin. Didn’t understand the epipen at all.

wellstopdoingitthen · 05/03/2023 22:52

This is outrageous behaviour by the club OP. My son is a T1 diabetic & although he has an insulin pump he also needs to carry an insulin pen. So far he has never been refused entry to a club with his pen.
As I work in a primary school & have administered an epipen to a child having an anaphylactic episode I can say:
It is NOT something that the sufferer gets over without long lasting effects. I still have anxiety about it. This is a case of life & death. Don't downplay it.

SLS500 · 05/03/2023 23:55

100% complain and escalate to the local authority and I’d also consider going to the local paper - to raise awareness so all clubs/bars understand. This is literally life saving medication.

Ignore the bores giving parenting advice. Do it not just for your daughter, but for anyone else in the same situation- this isn’t an mild intolerance it’s life or death.

Trishthedish · 06/03/2023 00:39

I would absolutely follow this up. Since the advent of Natasha’s Law you will have a lot more clout. Your daughter should have her epipens on her person all the time. You never know when you will come into contact with your allergens. I’d be livid.

AngeloMysterioso · 06/03/2023 01:29

My flat mate at uni was diabetic and had to hand in her insulin pens when we went out clubbing- this was 15 odd years ago.

fact is they’re very sharp and filled with stuff that could do a lot of harm to somebody who doesn’t actually need it.

Elisi · 06/03/2023 02:57

That's disgusting, it's worse than having your asthma inhaler confiscated. Hope your daughter never needs to use it, bless her x

sashh · 06/03/2023 03:30

NoSquirrels · 04/03/2023 09:10

If they have a medical room, that’s staffed, and she and her group of friends were told where it is, then is it different to a school or education establishment holding the epi pens in their medical room?

Schools should only have spare epi pens, a child in anaphylactic shock cannot get to a medical room.

At primary it is more acceptable for a pen to be kept in a teacher's desk but as soon as the child is capable of administering the pen then the child should carry the pen.

OP

The student union might be worth a try, as well as contacting the club and the licensing department.

The SU can support your DD and they can contact the club saying they are going to organise a boycott of the club.

Lets face it, in a uni town it is students who pay the club's bills.

DoughnutDreams · 06/03/2023 03:39

NoSquirrels · 04/03/2023 09:10

If they have a medical room, that’s staffed, and she and her group of friends were told where it is, then is it different to a school or education establishment holding the epi pens in their medical room?

Pupils should keep their epipens with them in secondary, and in the class in primary school, not in a medical room. It is time-critical medication.

Goodiewhemper · 06/03/2023 06:07

megletthesecond · 04/03/2023 10:40

bon Of course he has. But he has no idea how well trained the restaurant staff are. It doesn't matter what they say they can still be crap or want the sale.

If someone eats gluten they aren't (generally) blue lighted to hospital. It makes me ill but I can ride it out over a week.

This exactly. I am coeliac. It is an autoimmune disorder. If I accidentally ingest gluten I get very ill but it always passes. My daughter has a nut allergy and has to carry an EpiPen. If she accidentally ingest or comes in contact with a particular type of nut she goes into full blown anaphylaxis and could die. Our two conditions are not remotely comparable..

I am so sorry OP. Your poor DD must have been so distressed by this.I would be livid and definitely complain with your daughter.

coinkidinks · 06/03/2023 07:59

I would 100% follow this up and make sure they amend their rules- nowadays there should be so much more awareness of allergies it’s unacceptable. My cousin was visiting a family friend and left her epipen in her handbag in the car (was just meant to be a quick pitstop). She accidentally had contact with nuts, and even her husband’s quick dash to the car was not fast enough to save her life. Absolutely shocking for all of us, especially her poor 2yr old daughter- she was only in her 20’s. 😔

T1Dmama · 06/03/2023 08:43

wellstopdoingitthen · 05/03/2023 22:52

This is outrageous behaviour by the club OP. My son is a T1 diabetic & although he has an insulin pump he also needs to carry an insulin pen. So far he has never been refused entry to a club with his pen.
As I work in a primary school & have administered an epipen to a child having an anaphylactic episode I can say:
It is NOT something that the sufferer gets over without long lasting effects. I still have anxiety about it. This is a case of life & death. Don't downplay it.

Same here. Daughter is currently only 12 though. The ignorance around diabetes and other life threatening conditions astounds me.
Then for the paramedic bloke not to even be in the medical room when this young lady went to collect them!! Absolutely disgusting! Thank goodness she didn’t have an attack because she wouldn’t have even been able to get her epi-pen had she made it to the medical room.

OP you shouldn’t have to do this, but in future I’d say to hide her pen under her boobs in her bra, then pop back in her bag once in the club. What a horrendous position for the nightclub to put her in.

maybe go to the media about it if you don’t get any joy! Kind of hoping the papers get hold of run with your mumsnet post and you can contact them.