Nightclub took DDs epipens

[anaphyl4xis]

My DD - 18 and a 1st year uni student - went to a nightclub last night and they refused to let her keep her epipens on her. They said if she needed them
She had to go to the medical room.

She was with a group of friends and had all paid to get in and the venue also refused to refund if they decided not to go in.

AIBU to be absolutely livid and to follow this up with the company.

For context my daughter has a life threatening allergy to nuts - but not peanuts.

That’s so tragic. Sorry for your loss

And another fact is that if they’re taken away, the person who does actually need it may die.

Utterly irrelevant. All the clubs’ bouncers had to do was familiarise themselves with the appearance of the genuine pens so they know what to look for. Genuine ones carry the name of the patient and the medication, date and pharmacy of issue.

This is what I was going to say. If she went into anaphylaxis she wouldn't have time to get to the medical room. They absolutely should not be confiscating her epipen, and you need to make a very clear complaint. This literally could've killed her.

This is really sad for your DD and worrying for you, but with all due respect it’s not a reason to remove essential medication from those with legitimate health conditions. Epipens are not used for spiking and to refuse someone with a medical condition entry to any establishment unless they hand it over is illegal. It contravenes the Equality Act which is there to ensure fair and equal treatment for disabled people. I agree this is a big problem, but it is not one for genuinely disabled people to fix. It’s for the clubs and the relevant authorities to come up with a solution that doesn’t ride roughshod over legislation meant to protect the very people this is affecting.

No. We don’t. At. All. These are life saving medications and are designed for quick access - anything that hinders access is potentially deadly. Once more, this and any other establishments’ door policy is illegal. It infringes on the rights of disabled people, and it is NOT for those who need these medications to come up with a solution, or to be made scapegoats for these clubs so they can continue with an ignorant, illegal and discriminatory policy instead of looking for a proper solution.

Under the provisions of the Equality Act 2010 it is not permissible to discriminate on the grounds of nine protected characteristics, one of which is disability.

The point is that the club are in breach of the Act. They are preventing disabled people from the enjoyment of entertainment facilities on the same terms as the rest of society, by refusing them entry if they don’t hand over their medication. Then adding insult to injury by refusing to refund he entry fee. The OP doesn’t have to ask ‘nicely’ after they treated her DD so appallingly. Their risk assessment and policy breach’s the law and the OP should report them to the LA responsible for issuing the licence and make a formal complaint quoting the Act.

Firstly, because, as has been said quite a few times, Epipens are not used for spiking, and to suggest that they are is further complicating the issue. And secondly, because the delay in accessing them could be long enough to kill someone. There are laws protecting disabled people from this kind of discrimination and the club is acting in breach of them. It’s not for disabled people to fix this, and breaching their rights is not a solution.

Because anaphylaxis can come on suddenly, incapacitate you in seconds and kill you in minutes, or less. Do you not think that if this were in any way feasible, the pens would already come in such containers ? Fumbling to open a container instead of simply grabbing and jabbing an Epipen is the difference between life and death - especially in a crowded nightclub environment where you can’t make your distress immediately apparent. It’s really awful that spiking happens but this is not for disabled people to fix. It is not their responsibility. These clubs need to familiarise themselves with the law and stop with the blanket policies of removal or refusal before they kill someone.

Because they have no lived experience of being disabled, so can’t appreciate that disabled people have fought long and hard for legal protection, so that they can live their lives on the same terms as non disabled people. And, as is so typical of MN some people can’t appreciate that something exists if they haven’t experienced it. Happens on most threads, regardless of subject.

Because you’re making it harder for them for the benefit of others, not the disabled person themselves. That’s discrimination.

I think in similar situations people would be well advised to ring 999 and ask for an ambulance as an emergency situation has been created by the club. Get the person what they need as a priority and then let the club explain to the paramedics why, despite knowing the person was diabetic, they preferred to think he was drunk and not hand over his medication.

I remember years ago when my eldest started at a new school. They are sat in alphabetical order in their lessons and 90% of the time she was sat next to the same boy.
After about a week he pulled her aside and told her about his epipen, why he had and what she should do.

She came home that night not happy he had done this and put this responsibility on her shoulders. She was 11.
I had to flip the story as that this boy trusts you so much to tell you this and that it may never happen. Even if it did and you couldn’t do it, then she knew and could tell someone.
They’ve both finished education now and remain good friends. She has never had to administer the pen.

I ran this story by her and both of us are truly shocked. She said it’s so noisy in a night club as well so you need it close by. By the time you’ve probably repeated yourself to be heard and what the problem is then it could be too late.

So the person dies?

The ONLY way I think the night club could do this is that they employ a pharmacist who checks the individual's epi pen / insulin etc and it is swapped for an identical one supplied by the club pharmacist.

It would be much easier and cheaper to let people keep their medically necessary prescription medication.

Did you read my post? Where did I say that medication should be taken away? I didn't. What I actually said is I would be more comfortable knowing there were no needles or syringes of any kind - totally different statement. And I would be.

How do you know elipens aren't used for spiking? You don't. And by the way - that doesn't mean that I think they are (before you make up your own narrative about what I said as opposed to what I actually said).

I clearly said that I don't know what the solution is.

Stop making issues and arguments where there aren't any. Read what you see, not what you think you see.

Epipens need a needle to deliver the drug. If you want a needle free environment then of course you're taking away medication.

I'm guessing their reasoning is the concern that the epipens could get into the wrong hands and put others in danger (spiking etc). If they explained where the medical room and assured that first aid was available, I think it's reasonable.

NO. Have you even read any of the thread?!?!

Putting distance between an allergy sufferer and their epipen could be fatal Every second counts.

Someone In anaphylactic shock should be lying down with their feet up. Not running across a nightclub to get hold of their epipen. FFS.

No I hadn't read the thread! No need for the tone and ''ffs'', seriously. And no quite obviously I wouldn't expect someone in a medical emergency to be running across a club - that's the point of the first aiders.

No. In the situation this poster described, the security guard was refusing to get the medication because he thought the person was just drunk, when they were actually having a hypo. They were wasting time arguing. The second I realised that there was going to be a delay in handing over the medication I would ring 999 and eat an ambulance out as back up - and obviously still insisting that the guard get the medication. It also rams home to the moronic guard that if you thought the person was just drunk, you wouldn’t be calling an ambulance, and that he’s now going to have to answer for being obstructive.

And your suggestion of a ‘club pharmacist’ is just daft. And discriminatory. I would no more hand over my medication, which has been properly prescribed by my own doctor, and swap it for something containing god knows what - that is how people die. Most posters are overlooking the fact that the club are acting illegally. Disabled people who need essential medication accessible at all times are not responsible for the spiking going on in these clubs. And to suggest that they hand over their medication in any way - whether it’s substituted for something else or not - is to suggest that they are responsible for providing the solution. They are not. The clubs, and their controlling authorities are. And that involves educating their staff as to what they can and cannot do in order to comply with the Equality Act 2010. And a policy of ‘removal or refusal’ clearly breaches the Act.

No. There absolutely is a need for the tone when folk with no knowledge are wading in saying it's reasonable to put anaphylaxis sufferers in danger unnecessarily.

How the fuck do you expect them to get hold of a first aider in a chaotic nightclub? What if they're attending to someone elsewhere.

Each minute epipen administration is delayed reduces chances of survival by 4%.

Again here is what happens when epipens are not kept with the sufferer but in a medical room. www.thesun.co.uk/news/4319486/school-boy-died-allergic-reaction-11-minutes-find-epipen/amp/

If you had read the whole thread you would realise that one of the important points being made is that epipens are NOT responsible for spiking. They require a process to be used properly and you would be left in no doubt that you had been injected. And in the chaotic environment of a nightclub, first aiders would likely be useless, given how quickly an episode can start - that’s the whole point of epipens being instantly accessible.

You’ve also missed the fact that the club is acting illegally. The Equality Act 2010 ensures that disabled people are treated the same as anyone else, and refusing to let someone into a venue unless they hand over essential medication is a clear breach. Disabled people are not responsible for sorting out the spiking problem, and removing essential medication from them is not a solution.

I think that it's possible that epipens are being copied but there is also the possibility that insulin pens are also being 'adapted' for spiking too.
I've seen an epipen being used and there is no way someone wouldn't know that they've been injected but insulin pen needles are short and thin and it is possible to inject and feel little or no pain.
The easiest way round this problem is for epipen/insulin carriers to have a letter/card which states what their condition is and that they must have their equipment with them at all times which should at least eliminate most of the spikers if proper body searches are carried out.
Often our biggest problem is the desire of security to confiscate hypo treatments such as glucose juice and fast acting carb snacks and yet carry out the most brief of bag searches failing to find the insulin but wanting to take a small packet of biscuits. The situation is often ridiculous.
Thankfully (or not) my DC19 is actually too terrified to go clubbing/gigging on their own because of the fear of having their medical stuff taken by security.

Why do people keep mentioning schools? Surely there's not a big issue with children spiking each other with epipens.

@JenniferBarkley

How do you know elipens aren't used for spiking?

You can't prove a negative. And it's up to those making outlandish claims to prove that epipens are being used for spiking.

As has been discussed by those of us in this thread that actually use epipens the prospect of that happening is utterly ludicrous.