Disagreeing with DP about safe sleeping

[bells2810]

DP and I have a 1 week old DD together, my DP also has two children from previous relationship. This is my first baby and I’ll admit I’m an anxious parent. We have a Moses basket in our bedroom for DD to sleep in, she sleeps in it absolutely fine through the day but at night struggles to settle. She often will only settle by lying on DP’s chest and she can sleep like this for hours. When she’s in her Moses basket she wakes up frequently and I think she misses the close contact.

DP has said he wants to sleep in bed with her on his chest and says he did it with his other children and they were fine. I am really against this because throughout my pregnancy I was always told my midwives and other healthcare staff (support workers, health visitors) to never fall asleep holding a baby as it isn’t safe. DP gets frustrated with me saying this as he did it with his other children but the thought of him doing it and something happening to DD gives me horrendous anxiety, he slept with her in the spare room the other night to give me a break and when he said he’d slept with her on his chest I had a breakdown and couldn’t stop crying.

I’ve been told by my midwife to not let DD sleep longer than 3 or 4 hours maximum, and to wake her to feed, which I have been doing and setting alarms just in case she/we sleep longer than that (not that it happens often!) DP also disagrees with this and said that DD will wake us when she’s hungry and we should just let her sleep.

I don’t know what to do. DP is an amazing father and he is wonderful with his kids and DD, but I really disagree with him on these two points and it’s causing a lot of tension. I think I’m also suffering from a bit of the baby blues and feel very sensitive and emotional, whenever we disagree about these things I’m ending up in floods of tears and just feel like I’m causing problems when he is doing what he thinks is best but I’m terrified of something bad happening, especially re the sleeping.

Dissenting voice, but your DH isn't imo being evil, he's parenting as he knows how as he has done before.

What does need to happen though is a big conservation about parenting together this time.

If the baby needs to wake for feeding, can he not sit up with her and stay awake if she's on his chest? And break up the time in the basket until you get a side sleeper.

In a very against the MN flow- remember you are equal parents- his opinions matter too (though the safety one needs to be addressed). If this was a 3rd time mum and 1st time dad no one would question defaulting to her opinion.

amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/26/italian-hospital-investigated-after-newborn-dies-under-sleeping-mother

get him to read this story. Babies die if accidentally squashed by a sleeping parent. Not withstanding a baby does not need the same heat in a bed as an adult. She is far safer in her own cot.
He is however right that she does jot need to be woken up to feed - she will tell you if she is hungry.
Deal with this firmly - get your midwife on side if necessary, without tears and hysterics. He needs to know it’s serious.

It's so annoying that he keeps saying this is how he did it before. Is he going to say this about everything and give you no chance to discover ways of doing things for yourself? He needs to fully cooperate with you after a section, being in pain, learning how to cope with a new baby. He is causing you distress and this is very unfair. Its not only about what is safe or unsafe. Its totally distressing for a new Mom to have to waste energy to get what she is comfortable with. If he wants to help he needs to actually help and not make things worse. His job is to do all the things you can't do because of having an actual operation. He should be just falling in with your wishes at this vulnerable time and not insisting on his own way. He doesn't even seem to care that a new mom in pain is upset. I actually don't like the sound of him and l co slept with all my babies. I would focus on him not listening to you, on increasing your distress not adding to it. There is a massive mother protective instinct at work in your body right now and if he doesn't know that he is a right that.
Otherwise l would go to my own mother!!

The safe sleeping argument is one worth having cos the consequences are horrendous if something happens.

Only breastfeeding mothers should co sleep. The research is all there. We have a next to me crib with my 3rd child. Game changer.

And just because his older children were fine doesn’t mean this child will be.

Your DP should not be arguing with you right now he should be accommodating your requests even if he doesn't agree (you are right on safesleeping btw).

I hope you managed some sleep OP. I posted in the early hours (awake with a 15 month old).
Can you talk about it with him today when emotions aren't running so high- show him this thread if you have to. Stick to your guns - it's really not safe. Things will get better, the very early days are such a whirlwind with c section recovery thrown in, I can remember feeling so vulnerable.

Lullaby Trust guidelines on co-sleeping here, they are very clear that sleeping on a sofa with a baby increases the risk of SIDS by 50 times. www.lullabytrust.org.uk/safer-sleep-advice/co-sleeping/
Sleep deprivation is awful, I understand he wants to help but at the moment he's completely undermining you as a mum. If he still won't listen you could phone your midwifery team and ask them to talk through the risks with him.

I wouldn't wake up the baby to feed, assuming a normal weight. I'm with your husband on this.

Sleeping on the sofa, absolutely not.

My baby loathed the Moses basket. Wouldn't sleep there at all. We ended up co-sleeping according to the Lullaby Trust guidelines. I think a compromise could be reached with your DH where he agrees to follow these. Or try a side-by-side cot, it works for some people (didn't work for us though).

I’m all for safe bed sharing following the lullaby trust guidelines. Never with a new born on a sofa! This is so very dangerous. Can you ask the HV to talk to him?

Waking to feed in a healthy normal birth weight baby is normally recommended until baby regains their birth weight. Has your baby done this yet?

Unless premmie I wouldn’t wake to feed. I too had that advice with my first and it nearly killed me.

I suspect a lot of people have fallen asleep with babies on chests. It isn’t the safest option and he has to own that. There are some things that are a balance between absolute safest sleep guidance and sanity. Eg always being in room when they’re asleep may be possible with baby number 1 but gets increasingly harder if you have more than one.

One of the problem with chest sleeping especially on a man is they tend to be deeper sleepers, heavier etc. it just isn’t safe but happens. I remember falling asleep a few times in a chair with my baby on me and jolting awake in a bit of a panic. It is not something I’d actively plan to do at all.

At a week old then they may well have to wake the baby if they haven't regained birth weight.

Sleep pods are not recommended due to SIDs risk so I wouldn't use one of them either.

Sofa sleeping isn't safe so it's wouldn't be happy with that

Both of mine were early and low birth weight so I was told I needed to wake mine to feed, they would not wake naturally.

.Him sleeping with baby on his chest is so dangerous, and men tend to be heavier sleepers and so wouldn't necessarily wake if baby were to slide off or move into a dangerous position.

The Lullaby Trust are amazing for safe sleep guidance, they have a website and are very active on Facebook. You're doing brilliantly OP.

Definitely not safe. Do you have a baby sleeping bag? Maybe they are cold? If she is sleeping ok during day in Moses basket there's no reason for her not to sleep in there at night.

It's difficult if he is arguing with you.

About the C Section - he sounds really unsupportive. I've had two, it's not easy. Both times I ended up in tears on the first night as I couldn't sit up and the helplessness made me feel panicked (might have been the hormones too). He sounds like he has no patience for what you're going through. It's all about the fact that he's done it before, with no regard for the fact that you, the person whose just gone through a massive ordeal, haven't. He should have prepared himself to be more supportive of this being your first time, he's being a massive arse.

With regards the sleeping, a simple google search would tell him how wrong he's being. My DD did fall asleep like this a few times, but we were under no illusion that we were lucky it turned out fine, it is risky. If he likes coalescing it should not be that difficult for him to do it safely, for his child's sake and for yours. Have you suggested that? It would be a compromise.

I really feel for you, I think he's being very cold and unfeeling.

Survivor bias isn’t it? His kids might have survived but plenty haven’t. Has he seen articles by parents devastated by their babies died after not follow safe sleep guides?

I would also be worried if the bigger picture, there’s no listening to you. I know it’s something you can’t compromise on here but he is seemingly putting his own sleep needs before safety of his newborn. He might be offended that you’re questioning his parenting but he’s actively being unsafe, why wouldn’t anyone question that?

If she is sleeping ok during day in Moses basket there's no reason for her not to sleep in there at night.
lmao, yes there is. Babies is the reason. They’re all different and nighttime is dark and quiet, vastly different to the daytime.

These are actually strongly warned against now and are not considered safe sleeping, important to know.

www.lullabytrust.org.uk/the-lullaby-trust-issues-warning-about-some-popular-baby-sleeping-products-sold-in-high-street-stores/

Only breastfeeding mothers should co sleep. The research is all there.
I see this trotted out a lot on here but never with evidence to back it up (other that highly flaws meta studies).
Luckily the Lullaby Trust don’t agree so all us feckless formula feeding parents can breathe a sigh of relief.

@Shroedy my logic is that it’s safer than on the chest of the DP, plus my understanding is that there are breathable versions which are essentially no different to a Moses basket. If you search on Mumsnet they are a lifesaver for many people in the DP’s position and literally thousands of people use them overnight as part of co-sleeping. I’d never have left my baby downstairs or in another room on one. Obviously it’s for the OP to decide herself though, I am just saying that this is what worked for me and many others. The lullaby trust will never recommend anything other than a hard mattress with clear sides which just doesn’t work for everyone.

Don't know why so many are recommending sleep pods as they're not safe either..

Oh you poor love! Sending lots of love ❤️ i know exactly how you feel regarding having an unsupportive partner in the midst of becoming a new parent! I was also very anxious about baby sleeping!

For me, my hill to die on would be falling asleep with baby on his chest. I would also not allow this. Try to move on from the previous incidents and maybe ask your midwife/health visitor to have a conversation with him about it.

A couple of bits that helped my little boy (now 16 months and generally sleeps through) fall asleep in the early days:

Pop the top you were wearing all day in the crib so it smells like you. (Take out once they're asleep)

Warm the moses basket with a hot water bottle to mimic mum/dads warmth

My little boy found 20 degree too cold last year to sleep, so the room was warmer at aboht 22/23, but this is against safe sleep guidelines.

Sending lots of love! I know it feels like you're totally alone but lots of us have been here! The first few weeks with a mewborn is full on survival mode xx

Completely understood and I don't disagree with you that it can be a case of finding the safest solution when there isn't a 100% safe one (that's essentially what safe Co-sleeping advice is, safER Co-sleeping) - but worth making sure the OP (and anyone else) is aware of the advice. I'm not convinced about the "breathable" ones personally - mainly marketing when the warning came out!

The trouble is the specific medical concerns about letting a child go hungry do not become apparent until the child is dead

I agree with this. Please don’t let him do it. I did it once (accidentally fell asleep) and when I woke my baby wasn’t there! He was under the blanket further along the bed. I got the fright of my life and his cot was placed next to my side of the bed after that.