Did you know ABA is widely considered abuse?

[PennyRa]

I may be trying to kite a derailment a little bit but I also feel like it deserves its own thread?

I have yet to meet an OT (in the uk anyway) that would use ABA methods.

people calling it positive reinforcement well yes it is but that’s also how I train my dog. I’ve no desire to clicker train mine or anyone else’s child. Unless of course they have a burning desire to perform at sea world perhaps.

Is this in the UK??

I know that some consider it abuse (and it's early versions definitely were abusive, with lots of punishment as well as positive reinforcement).

I'm not convinced it is abuse, but what I have seen definitely seems to be around training children to seem more "normal" and do more "normal" behaviours, act "less autistic".

Do you mean applied behaviour analysis ?
If so I can evidence a non verbal 9 year old who went to competent speech within a year at an ABA school

There are a small number of state funded ABA schools

Vile post.

Yes, but from what I learnt about it a few years ago much of it is a very normal way to teach children, but many practitioners took it to extremes with autistic children without considering their needs and the fact that the extremes they took it too made it traumatic.

The whole drive to eliminate autism or to fix the child is awful, and anyone using extreme methods to do so should not have any access to children at all.

I hope there are others come along who know more about this than me, but I believe that ABA is actually a useful tool, but it depends on who is using it and how responsive they are to the individual they are working with.

Stimming (flapping, rocking etc) is often considered undesirable by NT people. But it's not unsafe and provides relief for the person.

I don't think it's all abusive, I didn't find it to be, but I know others do, I think it very much depends on both the person if they're receptive to it and the person. or people doing it and how they approach it. Basically a case by case basis.

I feel that anyone posting on this thread who is against ABA is not going to change their mind as a result of this thread. And that anyone posting who is in favour of ABA having seen the positive impact on a (generally very lacking in basic skills prior to ABA) child isn’t going to change their mind either.

The irony is that anyone eloquent, intelligent and with the stamina to cope with this level of ‘debate’ is unlikely to be some who themselves would ever need ABA to help them develop essential skills.

There are always good and bad examples of all kinds of teaching. Abuse is a very strong and emotive word and should be very carefully used, imo.

Yes but @NutellaEllaElla if the environments children with autism are in haven’t changed, all you’re doing with ABA is training them to restrain their behavioural responses to external stimuli. Their internal responses no doubt stay the same - does it really help them? As opposed to the adults around them who want them to be easier to manage?

I don’t know the answer. But I have felt very uncomfortable hearing an ABA therapist describing the approach to me. But equally I don’t have a profoundly autistic child, so for me it’s academic, I don’t have any skin in the game.

Do you think they don't want to be able to do things that everyone else does? Even though they can be stressful?

I've heard it is very controversial and havent tried it. But my son understakes some harmful behaviours and i think if there was something that could replace those, not to make him appear normal, but to keep him safe i am not sure that woukd be abusuve.

Of course it is.

I didn't see this going on. It didn't change his personality but it did make him better able to cope with the challenges of a mainstream setting. I've seen so many children with needs struggle due to not having friends or being able negotiate social situations.

The UK school system is rubbish for people with needs generally speaking. Most LSA's have minimal training and are just expected to know magically how to deal with it. Every time I'm at work I just end up thinking that there must be a better way - especially when I see a child unravelling due to overwhelm.

It's not just positive reinforcement though surely as all schools and parents I am sure use praise, behaviour points, notice the good ignore the bad, buy you sweets of you are good at the park etc.

What makes it abusive? On the face of it being more able to cope I society is good. But is it causing emotional dysregulation and distress of masking? So many questions. Also not really sure what counts as aba.

I don’t think we should be posting links to potential abuse.

Why not?

Surely if something is potentially abusive the word needs to be spread.

If there is evidence through links then they should be posted.

The irony is that anyone eloquent, intelligent and with the stamina to cope with this level of ‘debate’ is unlikely to be some who themselves would ever need ABA to help them develop essential skills.

I have read lots of eloquent accounts from people who have been on the receiving end of ABA.

Surely you can just look it up yourself?

I am an ABA Therapist and it is utter rubbish it's considered as abuse!! Maybe in the 1950/60's but now it CHANGES lives! It addresses change for social significant behaviour. I cannot stress how positively lives of kids I have worked with have improved- being able to go into the community without running away, hitting people, being toilet trained, being able to live safely at home .... the list is endless. I work with well respected BCBAs who are amazing and at NO point is there any abuse of any form. People do your research and stop spreading all these rumours!!!

This is along the lines of what I learnt about (starting a masters in autism - was several years ago now and my memory is flawed!).

There are many adult autistics who are able to speak very eloquently about their abuse via ABA, and understandably they will never accept it as anything but abusive, and many have ptsd from it.

Elements of ABA are commonly used in useful ways though, which don’t force a child to act NT, but rather work effectively to help reduce self harming behaviour, inappropriate behaviour (like stripping off in public or masturbating in public), which are usually positive for a child/teen to learn. Iirc it’s used in many special schools, but tends to not be called ABA any more (again, it’s been years and I can’t remember the specifics).

Like many other topics, this is an emotive one, people will tend to be polarised about it. It has been used in truly abusive ways, but like most things there’s a balance to be had, and it does have its uses.

This.

My friend is a psychologist and is now on a team that diagnoses autism. She has seen ABA being applied in a specialist school and found it highly distressing. It’s intensive treatment.

She saw children being encouraged to stop stimming. Children that did stop got a reward, those they didn’t, didn’t. Children who played with cars in the ‘wrong‘ way were encouraged strongly to play the ‘right’ way. She says many children were clearly very stressed and upset. They were also repeatedly told to make eye contact when they didn’t. I don’t think any of that is acceptable ‘treatment’. They were basically trained out of what came naturally to them and thsg relieved anxiety, for rewards.

Yes Alot. I've read a bit from ABA survivors who explained how eye contact was painful yet they were trained to do it 😔.

"The irony is that anyone eloquent, intelligent and with the stamina to cope with this level of ‘debate’ is unlikely to be some who themselves would ever need ABA to help them develop essential skills."

Fuck me, where do I start with that one. Not as eloquent as I could be, but it's my autistic DD's favourite saying (especially when having to choose work passwords). We are both autistic and I used the gentler form of ABA during her childhood. She found friends in her first job, so forced herself to eat a wider range of food, make eye contact etc etc etc. So in a way carried it on. She is now living a life that amazes her teachers in her SEN school , our family and even me. I mask daily. I have to think about my tone, my body language and so much more. You can absolutely need ABA and be University material. It's a wonderful concept about society changing to suit those who are ND, but it won't happen in our lifetimes. So it then becomes about working towards getting the best life possible. In some areas it's dangerous to be different.

Why?

`please provide evidence of where you have seen it in practice