Observation at school today

[Rainbowscarf]

There was an observation on my son’s tapestry app today. He’s 4.5 years old.

He’s not got a diagnosis of anything yet but I suspect Autism (or Asperger’s as it used to be called).
Am I right to be concerned about this? He wants to know everything about numbers and more. Knows all the names of the planets in the solar system and the order they go in too.
If you don’t know the answer to something he finds it really hard to understand why.

Its not snide at all. It means the girl wasn't listening or responding, which shows he maybe wasn't picking up on that social cue. If they wrote "talked to ..." it sounds like he had a conversation. Nothing to worry about in itsself OP but please don't complain about the practitioners choice of words, it gives a clearer picture.

From children I've worked with this observation isn't enough for anyone here to say either way. He may just love numbers, I've known very gifted children like this in reception year. In 10 years maybe 5 children could recite similar facts. 2 of those it turned out watched a shit ton of number blocks and had learned some incredible things. One was autistic and obsessed with numberblocks. The other two just loved numbers, saw pattern everywhere and were supported well at home, does your husband do lots with your son? You say it's mathematical maybe it's rubbing off ?

It also says In this observation he moved onto role play for a little while which means the practitioner could have been just doing a maths observation and not noted what he did during role play. He might have had a lovely social interaction.

I'd push for the meeting with senco if you are worried.

Hi @Rainbowscarf . Your little one sounds so bright! By itself it's not anything to worry about but autism tends to be a collection of different things, for my wee boy anyway. He also was obsessed with Numberblocks and knew square numbers, step shapes etc when he was 4. This has tailed off and he finds actual numeracy at school tricky (he also has a genetic condition though which may affect his learning). I agree with others, I think your GP might be the place to start. I would write all your concerns down as a list. Some of what is going on may be typical for his age too, just at a more 'extreme' end of typical! I hope you find someone to discuss your concerns with.

Ahh I just posted, numberblocks can be amazing, it's designed and recommended for use in education by the NCETM, watch episode 16 and see if he may have got this from there.

My middle son has a photographic memory. He could do this. Also a speed reader. It's useful, especially when doing a science degree and masters.

Try not to worry about it

Yes it won't be the first thing that happens, school should follow SEN Support for a while and if no progress is made or they cannot meet needs without involving external professionals then that is the next step. The LEA may be acting unlawfully if schools are not making referrals under their SEN Support duties - Code of Practice specifically says this is part of the process of meeting needs and ascertaining what they are, before LA gets involved or EHCNA is requested. They are meant to use their nominal SEN funding for this. But in practice it's not always what happens. The LA I'm in, schools do make these referrals, LA will take schools to task for not making these referrals before requesting assessment.

Multiples of 16 isn't weird - it's computer science maths - my youngest, who listens to me and my eldest doing maths stuff in the car would know this kind of thing above his age level - so as things stand, at 4, I wouldn't worry yet, just keep an eye.

My eldest isn't autistic (he's been assessed while checking for other stuff), but is dyspraxic, and just has my tendency towards maths and factual things. He also, from toddler, just liked the numbers 2 and 8 (!) - at 4 he would probably have come across as a bit of a one-trick pony about it too (these days it's history, and political regimes due to a computer game - count yourselves lucky it's just multiples of 16!)

Not lol children with Autism need not would qualify for an EHCP. Mine doesn't

ABA is Applied Behavioural Analysis and an extremely controversial type of therapy for autism.

The vast majority of autistic individuals consider it to be harmful and abusive, and there are studies which link it to PTSD in autistic adults.

The problem with ABA is that it doesn't consider the needs of the autistic child, and instead focuses on making them "look normal" and function like someone who is neurotypical.

Certain behaviours may be performing a function for the autistic child, even if they are undesirable, and ABA focuses on eliminating undesirable behaviours without considering the function they perform for the autistic individual, or how the removal of behaviours may impact the child.

Neurotypical parents of autistic children often seek out ABA because from their perspective their child might look as if they're "better" or "making progress" but the reality is that the child is just being taught to suppress their needs and mask their autistic traits. Needless to say in later life, this unravels and causes lots of problems. The aim of ABA isn't to help the child or address their needs, it's just to make them appear more acceptable to a neurotypical world. The child isn't centred in ABA - and that applies to new style ABA as well as traditional ABA.

It's a complex issue but that's the nub of it.

I don't want to derail the thread but that's essentially what you need to know.

@Rainbowscarf Another suggestion if he doesn't already watch it, is Charlie and the Numbers - fantastic show! My autistic child loved it. So much so that she could count to ten at 9 months!! Genuinely I was like 😯

@StalkedByASpider Just to be fair though, ABA is actually fairly successful. I've (very gently) used one of their methods in helping my (diagnosed) DD to understand how to read social signals and when to stop talking and listen to the other person she's having a conversation with, and so far so good! She enjoyed learning it and now is great at picking up on social signals and reading facial expressions. It's done nothing but help her.
However this is primarily because it's been done very gently and ONLY in ways which help her to understand- such as social stories which is actually something used by the NHS and schools.

I’ve got a DS like this. I wouldn’t worry - it’s not something that’s going to be diagnosed and sorted out immediately. Nothing will change - he’ll be exactly the same with a diagnosis of autism. I put my DS in a little independent school in year 4 because the combination of not enjoying school and learning nothing was causing a lot of upset and meltdowns (which he’d never had before and hasn’t had since).

He’s now at a state sixth form and just scored 99 percent in his mock maths A level so it’s not all bad!

The majority of autistic people - of which I am one - believe ABA is harmful and multiple studies back that up. You'll only find a small minority of autistic adults who support the use of ABA, and even then usually only in limited circumstances.

ABA looks "successful" because it achieves the aims of what a parent might want, but it doesn't consider the needs of the autistic child. Neurotypical parents often cause harm while trying to help. It comes from a good place but can be extremely detrimental.

What you're describing doesn't sound much like ABA. Typically ABA includes forcing eye contact - which for autistic people can be physically painful. So without more info about what methods you've used and how they've been applied, I can't offer a fair opinion. What I will say is that sometimes modern therapy is labelled "ABA" but it's not ABA at all.

Honestly, I appreciate your perspective but this thread isn't the place to talk about ABA because we'll just derail from the OP and that's not fair.

OP - my dad was exactly like this when he was 4. He could also read adult texts and because he had a potographic memory, could recite everything he read word-for-word. He was reading the encyclopaedia and memorising it by heart.

He was not autistic - just EXTREMELY bright like one of those wonder-kids you might see on TV because of his amazing memory.

He also grew up to be the most amazing dad and his knowledge of history is still the most in-depth I have ever seen from anyone. It's honestly incredible because he remembers EVERYTHING- all names, dates, orders of succession, battles dating etc etc.

You might just be lucky and have an amazingly bright kid. 😊

Oh, and he has a PhD in Maths and always found Maths very easy

I had no idea. My son is nearly 17 so I guess methods change. I still know though, he benefitted from it. Became less frustrated. I guess it's not abusive if the child is capable of taking the guidance, with positive reinforcement. Pushing water uphill is never good for a child no matter what the method though. Shocked to see something that served my son so well demonised and resulting in posts deleted.

My son was diagnosed at 4.5 op. I also used to diagnose children in my work. What are your other concerns

@Gagaandgag

His number fixation, not liking loud noises such as hand driers, vacuum cleaners, hairdryers and the trimmer at the hairdresser.
He wants to control a lot of things and likes things done ‘his way’. But if we change plans last minute, for example, that doesn’t tend to cause a major problem. It’s little things mostly.
If we say or do things the wrong way, he gets very upset, it’s not a full on meltdown, but he is distressed for a while after.
He isn’t keen on echoey places like a sports hall or swimming pool.

His gross motor skills are lacking somewhat, he can walk for miles and run no problem, but riding a bike or scooter he really struggles with. Same with swimming. He also finds getting himself dressed and undressed difficult and sometimes would rather use his hands than his fork and spoon at the table.

He doesn’t have any problem communicating his wants and needs. In fact he doesn’t stop talking from the moment he wakes up in the morning.
Sleep has never been a major issue, but until about a year ago he would come into our bed most nights, he hardly ever does now.
He’s also been trying foods lately and is much less fussy. He’ll give most things a try.

He’s very headstrong and wilful! But funny too.

He has quite a few little friends outside of school who we meet up with regularly.

Ok name change
I have been an EY strategic lead for an LA
A regional adviser for EYFS
A DfE Adviser for EYFS assessment

I also have a son with ASD - currently doing an MSC

It is not typical
Have a conversation with the Senco
Request an EHCP /assessment from the school

The GP cant diagnose this - you need an Educational Psychologist.
No harm in talking to the GP.

Dont panic.

@Rainbowscarf he sounds really like my son, I’ve found my thread from 10 years ago!!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/gifted_and_talented/1703859-What-was-your-gifted-child-like-when-they-were-2-3-years-old

Bless him. You described a boy version of my diagnosed DD! She was diagnosed a month before she turned 5.

Best of luck 💙

@SchoolTripDrama

Can I ask how your DD is now? Does she manage in mainstream?

@Rainbowscarf - I think you've had some very unhelpful replies, probably because you've posted in AIBU.

I agree with @LNERTraintohell - there is usually a long waiting list for a child to receive a diagnosis (it was 4 years, but I think in my area it's been reduced) so there is no harm in gettting the ball rolling if you would like your DS assessed. The GP can refer him for assessment, as can the school. I'd try both routes TBH.

I must have written 1 million observations on Reception children in my time, and reading the observation I completely understand why you have concerns. FWIW, your DS sounds fabulous!

A GP can't diagnose but is able to refer to the Neurodevelopmental pathway in OP's area. Ed Psych's can't give a diagnosis that has to be a medical professional. Ed Psych would recognise traits and atypical learning and abilities though.

If had a £1 for every time other people told me my kid wasn't autistic I'd be rich. They were all wrong. You clew,Roy have suspicions and I suspect the school do too from what is written.

Thank you, I'd never heard of it!