Observation at school today

[Rainbowscarf]

There was an observation on my son’s tapestry app today. He’s 4.5 years old.

He’s not got a diagnosis of anything yet but I suspect Autism (or Asperger’s as it used to be called).
Am I right to be concerned about this? He wants to know everything about numbers and more. Knows all the names of the planets in the solar system and the order they go in too.
If you don’t know the answer to something he finds it really hard to understand why.

I kind of agree with your family that there is nothing wrong as such. He is obviously very clever, perhaps a bit quirky, which is great, if he is autistic it's just another angle to him.

You should definitely meet with Senco as arranged. If he does have ASD an early diagnosis is usually helpful. School or GP can refer you to CAMHS for this. He certainly has interests and abilities outside the normal range. A diagnosis may be helpful for developing social abilities if these become an issue later on.

Why do you need your DH"s consent? Is he one of those people who will feel stigmatized by a autism diagnosis?
Take him to the gp as surely an early diagnosis is a good thing.

There's a huge gap in provision for autistic children who are academically able, or gifted. And it can lead to a substantial delay in diagnosis. Your DS is still very young for a diagnosis - children diagnosed at that age tend to be clearer cut and more "obvious" but if you have concerns then being proactive is important. Earlier diagnoses are linked to a better outcome.

Can you help us understand why you think he's autistic, other than the numbers example mentioned in your OP? What difficulties does he have? What things have you noticed that you think would indicate autism? And I mean more specific details rather than just "social and communication difficulties". Lots of young children bang on about subjects that no one else cares about and they don't generally care too much if you're interested or not 😂So I'm just trying to understand exactly what your concerns are, and what you've spotted which might indicate autism.

(I hope none of that sounds rude, it's intended to be helpful and to hone in on what's going on with your DS).

For reference, I have two autistic DC, and I'm autistic myself. DS diagnosed at age 4, DD diagnosed age 10. Neither of them had behavioural problems, had glowing school reports, and DS is very academically gifted in some areas, and also has a photographic memory. But it's very much the overall picture of your DS that we need to hear about.

Talking at people about a preferred subject I'd expect to be developmentally normal at 4. Working out multiples of 16 (which is what he must have done unless you have 16 times tables sitting around at home) is not.

You're switched on to the possibility. Keep an eye, look up an online screening test, talk to teacher/SENCo but don't expect them to lead. A lot of teachers won't raise suspicions, but prefer to wait until you do.

Things I noticed at that age were stuff like not using stickers like other children, just piling them all on top of each other, writing and drawing the same thing over and over hundreds of times, not feeling heat, cold, thirst, stammering, drawing people with dozens of fingers when he was obsessive about numbers and knew they only have 10. That last one is thought to be an expression of an overactive sensory system. We were told he'd never get an EHCP for years. He's got one now.

I’m concerned the GP won’t take me seriously as he’s very social and talkative. I guess if I went without him?

How are his social skills ?
my son is nearly 5 now and everything he talks about is the planets , the order they’re in also that Pluto is not anymore a planet etc.

the fact yours knows the 16 table is impressive. If there is no any other signs then I’d just say he’s just bright. If they’ve got more signs related with Autism then I guess you could start early dignosis for him

I don’t like the wording ‘talking at’
He talked without pausing or he talked without seeming to expect a response would be accurate but not derogatory.
Having an infinity for numbers it certainly an autistic trait but many young children, especially boys can be ridged in their interests.

I would ring the HV and ask if you could have a chat and then outline your concerns. Do the same with the school senco.

May I ask why, @Daftasabroom ?

Your husband may be ignoring the things he can see just as well as you can because he doesn't want a child with a 'label' unless that label is 'clever '. If he has autism it won't go away if his father ignores it and it is far better for the child to start the process of assessment. .

@StalkedByASpider
That’s the thing, I’m not sure whether it’s normal 4 year old behaviour or whether it’s autism.

Sone sensory issues - doesn’t like the hand drier or hairdryer, but is getting more used to them now.

Doesn’t have any problems with sleep, although we have to lay with him until he falls asleep, once he’s asleep it’s fine.

Will eat most things…just general kid fussiness at times.

He likes things to be done the way he sees them in his head. So if you do or say something ‘wrong’, he finds that really difficult.

He likes to talk about his specific subject (currently numbers) all the time. Slips it into every conversation.

He doesn’t have an issue with routine or rigidity at present.

Ask to see the SENCO. Under the SEND code of practice they have certain statutory responsibilities to identify any SEN whether or not he's ever going to need an EHCP and whether or not there is a formal diagnosis. They have a duty to understand whether there is any SEN or not and they should follow up on parental concerns over these things. Being on SEN Support or getting an EHCP is not just about cognitive abilities, any difficulties or needs under the 4 broad areas of learning (sensory, communication, SEMH and cognitive) are potential signs of SEN. If you google SEND code of practice you can read up on all of this. My son is academically high achieving at school but has social communication and sensory needs, he's had an EHCP (originally a Statement) since 2014.

Start by telling them exactly what your concerns are, and then ask them if they would agree to follow the graduated cycle (assess, plan, do, review). Part of that ought to include professional referrals eg to Ed Psych / SALT under the school's SEN Support duties but they may want to track his progress for a few weeks first. School should fund all of that under their existing resources/budget, you may need to push a bit because there will probably be children seen as higher priority. Once you have some info from the school and from EP/SALT observations you will potentially have more evidence for the GP who can then make a referral. Or you may not want/need to take it further.

I think DH is autistic himself to be honest.
He’s got the maths/science brain too.

Wouldn't be a red flag on its own, could be giftedness

We are an ND family. It wouldn’t surprise me if this was an indication of autism, but I wouldn’t necessarily regard that as a ‘concern’, just another pointer towards a diagnosis. An early diagnosis can be very helpful for supporting ND children through school, so I’d celebrate his academic capacity and gently work on the social side. DS doesn’t yet have a formal
diagnosis but the school recognise him as autistic and make adjustments as necessary.

I agree that that is not usual. Most kids have to consciously learn multiples of much lower numbers, even if they enjoy the process. I'd buckle in for the process of diagnosis. It can be a bit tedious when you know that there is something not quite the norm. My son has a dx and I'm reprimanded by professionals when I say it's mild but what I mean is that he is just himself and he is capable of most things, except being ''chill''

I'd phone and set up a meeting with the senco and see what they say.

While they can't diagnose autism they may have some ideas for support with social interactions or better idea of what is normal.

DH is good at maths - he's not ND he's just good at maths and science - though I'm not sure he was doing 16 time stable at 4.5 he was marked down very early by teachers as very good at maths and he good at seeing patterns.

Mostly though I'd keep an eye on his development and find out how to get him assessed so you can if needed and read around the whole area just in case.

That isn't a measure of autism

The thing is, you don't have to know whether it's normal or not. You shouldn't have to work it out for yourself - that's the job of the doctors. Don't put too much pressure on yourself to know what's going on.

Unfortunately, lots of parents have had a really shit experience with getting their child diagnosed and it's meant that we have to become the experts - but it shouldn't be that way.

Have you tried doing any of the online autism quizzes and seeing how your DS scores? That might be helpful. Also, did your HV do the MCHAT with him?

I think what you should do is make a list of the things you've noticed - don't try to explain or qualify them because your DS could be masking or developing coping strategies.

Sometimes it's not until you start writing things down and making a list that you realise just how many indicators there are.

What happens if you don't lay with him until he falls asleep? What happens if you try to change the subject when he wants to talk about numbers? Does he show any signs of generalised anxiety? What's the "general kid fussiness" that you see around food?

I think you should put together a list - bullet-pointed and concise - and take it to your SENCO to see what they say. I also think you should approach your GP. But it's worth getting the school onboard first as some GPs won't refer without school's agreement. The fact that his teacher agrees something is "off" suggests your gut instinct is on the right track.

Yeh, my mum totally disbelieves my son's dx because various uncles, cousins, great uncles dotted about the extended family are all mathsy and sciencey but we do have labels now and the label did help him get some ABA at a crucial stage. He is doing ok now. He'll never be a language person (although he's good or ok at English). He had a lot obsessions when he was younger. He hasn't outgrown whatever makes him different but I think as kids age, there's less scrutiny on them. Less he should do x by 18 months and y by 20 months. People tend to become more varied in their skills and strengths and traits as they grow up, so although my son hasn't outgrown his neurodiversity, it seems like we're all free to be a bit more diverse as we age'.

I would say socially that observation is concerning. “Talking at children” and asking children what numbers mean. It seems he doesn’t really know how to communicate / socialise in an age appropriate way.
Mention it to the paediatrician when you see them.

He sounds bright and adorable! His knowledge of and interest in numbers is very unusual for a 4 year old.
He could be autistic. I think the practitioner that wrote the observation is hinting at it to be honest with the "talked at" comment.

Many little children talk at you - mine did!

i don’t think there’s anything to be concerned about.

If you don’t know the answer to something he finds it really hard to understand why.

that’s being 4.

the rest of it - well maybe he is on the ASD spectrum. Nothing to be concerned about, it will be what it is. Mother of an ASD son here :)