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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think school competitions leave some children very sad?

116 replies

Orangeis · 03/03/2023 13:32

We had an Eisteddfod on Wednesday (it's like a Welsh talent competition) and both dc got a prize so this post isn't sour grapes.

But both my dc have told me some children were sad as they didn't have any entries or some of their entries were a bit rubbish.
The dc are too young to do the entries alone, it's craft, photography etc that's to be done at home.

I wonder why the school can't do some class based entries as well to give the dc without parental input a chance. I know these things are a PITA sometimes, people work, some parents just can't engage for various reasons so it's not that I'm bashing them either.

Do your school try hard to be inclusive of everyone, or is this quite standard? I'm just feeling a bit sorry for some of the kids involved.

OP posts:
juliettesmother · 03/03/2023 21:29

As a Montessori elementary teacher, I don't encourage competitive attitudes but I do encourage celebrating each others talents. We do small challenges, always in school, but we know the children who are lacking in confident, introvert or for whatever reason, don't revel in the spotlight.

I like to offer encouragement for everyone who has participated, and as celebrate those who achieved something special. But at some point, everyone is supported for being who they are, and their own uniqueness.

KimberleyClark · 03/03/2023 21:33

I only ever participated in group singing and group recital stuff, that way if you didn’t win it didn’t feel quite so personal!

UWhatNow · 03/03/2023 21:39

magicthree · 03/03/2023 19:52

This. So many young people can't seem to cope with losing because they never got the chance to learn how to.

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Kids understand the concept of losing from the day they start at school - they don’t need adults to construct systems for them to feel shit any further…

Thatenough · 03/03/2023 21:39

TrainTucker · 03/03/2023 13:50

Depends on the judge
my son won the Easter egg for 2 hard boiled brown eggs with felt tip face and bunny ears and noses he cut and stick on which put in a shoe box cage with a carrot

he was up against multiple parent done offerings including wood structures

Love this 🤗gives me the fair judge feels!

Namechangethisevening · 03/03/2023 21:52

I actually remember something like this when I was 5 or 6 (I'm 45 now so stayed with me!!)

We had to make a working machine. Pretty ambitious for a 5/6 yr old! I got an empty box of tea bags and spent ages transforming it into a washing machine. My mum had not time to help me, so my older brother (who was only about 8 himself) had a little motor he helped me rig up inside, and I made some paper clothes and somehow me and brother got the bloody tea box washing machine model actually working! I mean, it actually spun paper clothes!! It must have looked pretty rubbish but I was so so proud of it! It took me aaaaaagges to make with a bit of help from big bro. I mean literally I spent days and days on it - all weekend, after school each day etc... My mum had no input whatsoever

I remember competition day at school when all the entries were judged. I was convinced I'd win because of all the effort I'd put in and that I had got the bloody thing working!! But I didn't get a prize :( not even third place :( the winning machines were amazing!! I mean proper full on incredible. I'd be surprised if the kids had any input in them whatsoever. They were clearly made by adults. Not only were they working machines with lights etc.. but they were incredibly built and well painted etc... Certainly not the work of a 5yr old and their 8yr old brother.

It really stayed with me because even at that young age I realised that some people can 'cheat' their way to the top by getting their parents to do their work for them. I had worked so so hard on my machine and was so proud, and it was horrible to see none of the teachers even say a 'well done'.

I'll never forget that project (partly because I loved it and was so proud) or the judging day :(

DoneForToday · 03/03/2023 21:52

ArielManto43 · 03/03/2023 19:08

They used to do all this malarkey at my children's primary school. Drove me mad. I remember one half term "project" was to make a house, and the winning one had working electric lights in all the rooms. Go figure.

Another time, nursery staff awarded my three year old a first prize for his decorated hard boiled Easter egg, because, they confided afterwards, "we could tell he was the only one who'd done it all by himself." (I decorated it. Took me an hour). 🙈😂

😂😂😂

CremeEggsForBreakfast · 03/03/2023 21:56

Namachanga · 03/03/2023 16:17

When I was in Y7, we had to bring in home-made instruments. I made a pan flute, by myself. I was disqualified because they said I had clearly had parental help! They even phoned my mum and my mum told me off too for cheating…even though she surely knew I hadn’t had help, considering she was, in fact, my parent…

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This is spades!

Obviously, some parents are competitive and do all the work but I don't believe they're as numerous as many MNers believe.

Some kids are very talented but not in ways that can be shown in school. A child may do lots of woodwork at home but have no access to woodworking in school. If they brought in a carved model of a dragon for the "make a dragon" competition in the Eisteddfod these MNers would either say the competition shouldn't exist because it's not fair or assume a parent did it.

At what point does this kid who happens not to be interested in sports and struggles academically, can't play an instrument and doesn't like other art, get to have his talents celebrated?

We either include EVERYONE ALL THE TIME or we accept that some kids win some competitions and others don't.

WandaWonder · 03/03/2023 21:59

noblegiraffe · 03/03/2023 13:50

The idea that children should never be disappointed when they are younger stores up problems for the future though - always allowing a kid to win games, for example, leads to very poor losers.

Professional parent-made stuff should be disqualified though.

Yes all this

DoneForToday · 03/03/2023 21:59

DisneyChops · 03/03/2023 20:00

Fair enough, but this happens in the adult world as well. There's always that someone who gets treated better at work, always that someone who gets the promotions, always that someone who has the perfect house, life, etc.

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However, if you don't learn that life is a competition then you don't care that someone else has a nice house or whatever. You care about what you have and if it's good enough for you or not.If you learn to value what you have and what you do for its own sake or because it gives you some happiness then none of this matters.

Competition teaches kids that what matters is to be better than other people. I don't mind this so much in a sports context as at least winning is kind of intrinsic to many games but not everything has or should be a competition. It definitely isn't once you are an adult UNLESS you have learnt to view everything as a competition.

DoneForToday · 03/03/2023 22:03

EllieU · 03/03/2023 16:44

It's not a bad thing knowing some you're in, some you're not. It's a life lesson.

I think the issue is more that a lot of kids are learning that you are never in.

ClarasZoo · 03/03/2023 22:05

my son won the Easter bonnet prize for a completely rubbish bonnet that the teacher realised was obviously his own work as it was so poorly executed , but lots of effort… the irony was I had actually helped him!

LibrariansGiveUsPower · 03/03/2023 22:08

The problem is with the Eisteddfod is less that some children don’t win, but more that many children win 6-8 awards and some win nothing. That is demoralising, especially when half of it is parents work, or which parents can afford one-on-one dance and instrument lessons.

My kids won an award each, but seeing some kids with 8 and some with nothing is just heartbreaking.

axolotlfloof · 04/03/2023 08:06

I have a child with Dyspraxia who always found art, sport etc harder.
Never wins, never chosen for the school award (handed out once a week in assembly) never won in 7 years.
Got a rubbish part in the school play when he was enthusiastic and audition practiced etc.
Do you know what he's fine.
We think he's great. He's found his own way and seems to have held onto self belief.
We have to prepare kids for the real world.

Tontostitis · 04/03/2023 08:20

Losing is good for you, striving and doing your best and still sometimes not getting recognised for it is a very valuable life lesson.

Thatiswild · 04/03/2023 08:25

Ours was a mix this year - most activities at school so everyone entered and some additional optional ones to do at home if they wanted to enter. That worked well and three of mine won nothing and were disappointed, but as lots have said that’s a learning experience and we used it as such. The optional ones they only chose to do one of but I did give them the choice and helped them enter, they couldn’t have done it alone as you had to email the photograph they took in.

Greenfinch7 · 04/03/2023 08:43

Some things are naturally competitive (running races, chess, team sports). Other things are not (art, poetry, Easter eggs). By turning things into competitions which should not be competitions, schools undermine the joy and interest of doing the thing for its own value. Lots of people have given examples of how this kind of blow can stay with you.

Also, as some people have pointed out, it is not always easy to tell whether children have had help. My sister was an amazing artist as a young child, spent hours doing detailed beautiful work at home, but was too shy and rushed to do anything comparable at school. When she brought in something she had made at home, the teacher said my sister had not done it herself and must have had help, which was devastating to my poor sister, who was humiliated and had no way of feeling ok about it. This kind of thing can be very damaging to a sensitive child.

CelestiaNoctis · 04/03/2023 10:39

Schools do enough. They can't help if someone's parents or guardians suck unfortunately.

KimberleyClark · 04/03/2023 10:42

Some things are naturally competitive (running races, chess, team sports). Other things are not (art, poetry, Easter eggs). By turning things into competitions which should not be competitions, schools undermine the joy and interest of doing the thing for its own value. Lots of people have given examples of how this kind of blow can stay with you.

Poetry has always been competitive in Welsh eisteddfodau!

Snoreboar · 04/03/2023 10:48

Greenfinch7 · 04/03/2023 08:43

Some things are naturally competitive (running races, chess, team sports). Other things are not (art, poetry, Easter eggs). By turning things into competitions which should not be competitions, schools undermine the joy and interest of doing the thing for its own value. Lots of people have given examples of how this kind of blow can stay with you.

Also, as some people have pointed out, it is not always easy to tell whether children have had help. My sister was an amazing artist as a young child, spent hours doing detailed beautiful work at home, but was too shy and rushed to do anything comparable at school. When she brought in something she had made at home, the teacher said my sister had not done it herself and must have had help, which was devastating to my poor sister, who was humiliated and had no way of feeling ok about it. This kind of thing can be very damaging to a sensitive child.

I would say the competitive element of sport put me off enjoying it for many years - so even if something feels like it is naturally a competitive subject it doesn't mean that being competitive is the best way to go.
I've seen bright kids being completely turned off education due to the competitive push from schools...I think overall competition is not a positive influence. Education in this country is an absolute jumping through hoops-focused shit show - limiting the damage is about all you can hope for most kids.

OverTheRubicon · 04/03/2023 10:53

Logburnerperils · 03/03/2023 14:20

It is called life. You win some and you lose some.

But if it's the parents winning and the kids losing?

Agree with home crafts and things. Massively tips the scales to the kids whose parents do it, and the ones who are already benefiting from the privilege of parents who have the time / focus / money to make it work.

It isn't just the kids who lose who are harmed - it destroys kids' confidence when their parents are the ones doing all the work.

Vloader23 · 04/03/2023 10:55

It's not a competition if everyone gets a prize

Greenfinch7 · 04/03/2023 10:57

@Snoreboar I agree completely about PE. It should not be about competition and competitive games. There is so much that can be done with fitness and with enjoying sport- making it competitive can be deeply toxic.

I was just saying that if a school wants a competition, having a 500m race or a chess tournament makes a certain kind of sense, and at least it is possible to see who won.
Judging people's artwork and doling out prizes is another level of horrible.

CandleInTheStorm · 04/03/2023 10:59

When mine were at primary it was always the same kids who won/got the good parts in the plays and not because no one else tried!

ellyeth · 04/03/2023 18:00

I agree that it is horrible for children who never seem to win these things - and as Candleinthestorm says, it often turns out that it's the same children who win the prizes, get the parts, etc.

I think a good school would think more carefully and creatively about these sorts of things so that everyone has a chance to do well at something.

crew2022 · 05/03/2023 05:16

CelestiaNoctis · 04/03/2023 10:39

Schools do enough. They can't help if someone's parents or guardians suck unfortunately.

Aren't schools an opportunity to try and change inequality though?
I'm not suggesting make more work for the school, but at least be thoughtful about the underlying message in what they do activity wise.
Like others have said, yes to actual competition when there's a clear cut winner based on effort / talent such as running the fastest. No to competition when it's the parents participation that means a child has more chance of winning.
And if school is not an opportunity to engage everyone in fitness then how else are we going to turn obesity around? Kids need to be helped to enjoy exercise NOT just feel bad because they have poor hand eye coordination or can't kick a football.