To think MN posters have a weird attitude towards potential benefit cheats?

[Moonicorn]

I say potential as they won’t all be, obviously.

But it’s almost like a ‘beak out everyone, if they want to steal from the public purse then good for them, and what’s more you should be happy to fund it’.

Whereas MPs fiddling their expenses, or tradespeople (ESPECIALLY if they owe CMS) not declaring earnings is seen as ‘immoral’ and something that should be exposed/punished.

What exactly is the difference?

There is no difference.

Some really weird attitudes to theft/criminality. See also - self-employed people are nearly all diddling the tax man, and those who request cash definitely are. Or - everyone who volunteers in a charity shop steals all the good stuff.

Nothing, it's the same, but a lot on here also think you should turn a blind eye to people stealing in supermarkets as they need to feed their family.

Typically it's struggling single mothers who people want to report, and life really is a struggle.

Less so for the Tory twats redecorating their second homes and heating their horses' stables.

It's because it's a lefty site

UC is very generous to single parents of younger children in particular. Single people or the disabled, not so much. And I have to say stealing food, while still stealing, grates on me a lot less as it’s taking the ‘bare minimum’ you need to survive if that makes sense, rather than cash.

Tell that to trans people.

There isn’t. Most people don’t care about discount for cash trades, either.

I think our benefit system is a vital safety net and we happily pay our taxes. Never know, might need it ourselves some day. Just a shame that a minority play it though. If they didn’t, there’d be more for people who need all the assistance they can get, usually through no fault of their own.

I probably lean towards being a “leftie” 🤷‍♀️

Do come up with something more original. "leftie" / "lefty" makes me cringe after seeing it all the time as a crap/meaningless comeback on MN.

There's a huge difference. Firstly, the sheer difference in amounts of money this amounts to...secondly, corrupt MPs aren't doing this to meet ends meet. They are using their positions of power to be exploitative on a much larger scale and usually walk about unscathed & very wealthy.

I understand that point but I feel stealing is stealing 🤷🏼‍♀️ And in many cases benefit claimants aren’t doing it to ‘make ends meet’, it’s for an extra few hundred quid a month because who wouldn’t like that? I don’t feel one makes the other justifiable.

I think it’s a grey area, yeah fraud is bad whatever way you look at it but I think a lot of people have compassion if someone is genuinely struggling. Rich politicians fiddling the system is always infuriating though.

FFS.

Let’s take a sole trader who is a handyman. Let’s say he’s struggling because of the cost of living, and is struggling to pay his mortgage. Would mumsnet approve of him not declaring his earnings? Somehow I don’t think so.

I would take everything on a case by cases basis but these days it's a bold claim to say it's not to make ends meet.

Usually the posts on here are based on hearsay, or a single mum having a holiday or whatever, the problem being that if they report and are wrong that (usually) single mother will get her benefits stopped while they investigate, meantime she still needs to feed and clothe her kids.

MPs struggle for fuck all, milk the system that they set up for extra, vote to pay themselves more and use their jobs to line their own pockets.

Yup. Probably the same people who get outraged when posters talk about buying something from a charity shop, (at the asking price), and then reselling it at a higher price and keeping the profit. Apparently they're all disgusting monsters, 'stealing' from a charity. Their neighbour Bob with a 'bad back' who's been lounging around on the sick for 20 years though - 'none of my business and I'm not a grass'. Double standards much?

So not content with your numerous anti benefit posts you find it necessary to produce your own thread?

Well, yes. I’m interested to see what people have to say when there isn’t a specific scenario being queried. About attitude on here in general because I find them baffling!

I do know one definite benefits cheat, very open about it - partner lives with her in a council property but claims as a single person and gets free childcare, UC as says she is unable to work but various other streams of income (most are less than legal pursuits to say the least) on the side. They've been on 3 big holidays abroad this year and various mini breaks so yes, I can see why people get annoyed about it to be honest.
Not everyone will be to that extreme, of course, but for those who know people doing it on that level, it will grate, especially if they're worrying about basics such as bills, never mind 2 weeks in Dubai.

Well stealing benefits, not declaring as self employed and mps fiddling are all immoral.

But I think the reason people say it is because what do they know? How can someone truly know about another’s finances and whether someone is stealing anything. That’s why people have accountants because they themselves haven’t a clue about their own finances.

The public purse / tax man can be very cruel. They don’t go after the big boys, they go after the law abiding small men who are terrified to put a foot wrong/ too scared or can’t afford to fight it and regardless of whether you have done something wrong or not there’s likely a bill/ fine coming your way once they set your sights on you.

I know of two cases of acquaintances where this has happened, as whilst they could exonerate themselves as innocent, it was too stressful, too much at stake (their homes/ bankruptcy) and too expensive to fight that they have caved and agreed payment plans for extortionate amounts just to get closure and an end.

So its not whether it’s immoral, it’s whether it’s also immoral to set the dogs after someone on a whim.

Because the amount of times this actually happens, plus the amount of money involved is tiny compared to what we give MPs, and what corporations get away with in regards to not paying their fair share of tax.

The reason people on here get so annoyed is because a not insignificant few turn a blind eye to the latter while using the former to imply everyone on benefits is a cheat. And the media go right along with that because it takes eyes off of what THEY are doing to steal from the public.

The vast majority of people who post they 'know' friend B is a benefits cheat is ridiculous. The vast majority of time they absolutely can not know but are using their own biases to assume something about someone. And for some odd reason it makes them feel so much better about themselves to come and brag about that on MN.

@Ketanne why don’t you report them?

Your thread is already bringing fellow benefit bashers out from the woodwork.

Not to mention the ablelist posters.

Well done 🙄

But you've already rationalised stealing from supermarkets. Either stealing is stealing or you surely accept you are also one of the people you're talking about. It's just where people draw their line in the sand on an individual level.

I didn’t rationalise it, I said it grates on me less. If you’re struggling to make ends meet and stealing food, that makes sense on a humanistic level. If you’re ‘struggling to make ends meet’ but fiddling an extra £400 a month yet always have your nails done and Nike trainers, not so much.