to expect my well educated friends to realise the derogatory nature of their language?

[auntyspan]

i have a very dear friend who I have known for years. Last week she described someone (some hoodlum in Asda) as a 'mong'. I was utterly shocked that someone so educated and cultured as her could use such a term.

I discussed it with my DH and he said there was a couple of blokes in his office that used the term too - and suggested I might be a little over sensitive as my nephew has Downs Syndrome.

AIBU to expect this term to have died last century?

2shoes

I was just pointing out that you have called people 'idiots', a historical term for people with learning disabilities that fell into disuse because of the fact that people began using it it as an insult.

This thread is about people finding that sort of thing unacceptable.

I think it is respect for each other and I agree that it is the context that something is said in. Just as somebody shouldn't use some of the words mentioned, we shouldn't judge somebody too harshly if they are attempting to say the correct word, but are many years out of date. The term coloured is, quite rightly, no longer used, but my parents generation see it as a more 'respectful' term and just need reminding about how things have moved on.

The same goes for words that have crossed the boundary from a negative term into everyday usage, People must be made aware of the original connotations, but not be made to feel that they were being derogatory in a knowing way. To me, it is the person's attitude that is a better gauge of a person and how they react when informed.
YANBU, and I hope some of these words in current usage begin to disappear, though it seems that there are always new ones coming along!

My mother would probably not like me to use the word but encourages me to use anything which helps me to humanise how I feel.....
And with regard to my condition. I have had some of my temperal lobe removed and had to learn to function again so yes I do feel I have the right to say my learning and function has been impaired.........

It is possible to use such a term without meaning to cause offense but the point is you can cause offense without intending to. People need to think before speaking.

I have a friend whose first language is not English and she described a child with learning difficulties as being an "idiot child" I had to point out to her that she couldn't have said anything more offensive if she tried! She was mortified that she had caused offense. I explained to the mother of the child that things often get lost in translation and that she hadn't intended to be so rude but I also explained to my friend that she needs to think before speaking and if she isn't sure of the correct translation she should check with a friend first!

I don't think I have explained myself clearly......... I am aware it can cause offense but as I am refering to myself I don't apologise for using it..........

Language progresses and meanings change. I don't personally use the word 'mong', but I associate it wholly with wannabe's use of the word ('monged out'), rather than as a derogatory term against people with Downs' Syndrome.
I'm not saying that excuses the use of the term, but I think it's important to point out that

Another example I can think of: My DH often calls idiotic people 'spanners'. Apparently, that term derives from the word 'spastic' used as a term of abuse (according to a friend of DH's, anyway). Dh has always thought it was derived from the word 'tool' - 'he's a bit of a tool', 'he's a spanner' etc.

To be honest, I worry more about the sort of words young people use as terms of abuse. 'Gay' seems to be an acceptable insult - I hear kids from all walks of life using it against each other on the high street / bus etc. There is no ambiguity there, is there?

I would find 'mong' offensive in whatever sense. It's fine to say words have changed in their meaning over time, the same as gay = happy etc, but we do have to acknowledge the time that we live in and that they are no longer socially acceptable.

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Onestonetogo

Where are you? Are you in the UK or US? I believe that mental retardation is still popular as a clinical term in America, but in the UK because of the use of the term as an insult its now more common to say that someone has a learning disability.

Its like all these words isnt it - there is nothing wrong with the way that the word was originally intended, but when it becomes used as a term of insult then people arent comfortable using it as they did before.

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My son has a learning disability and I would find it very insulting to hear him described as retarted.

I think in terms of severity it is described in terms of mild/ moderate or severe.

if she isn't sure of the correct translation she should check with a friend first!>>

How does someone know to check a phrase with a friend first? Presumably you need some kind of sign from above to know that this phrase needs checking in the first place.

Often people call dyslexia a "specific learning disability" or "specific learning difficulties". It common for different professional groups use terms in different ways.

You are right, it can lead to confusion.

Onagar, I don't think I was being unreasonable in saying that she should check the translation first.

She actually said to a mother with a child at a parent & toddler group (the child has mild learning difficulties) "I don't suppose you will be applying for a place at the local nursery for X as she is an idiot child!"

I think it is reasonable to expect someone to make sure that they have the correct translation when they are dealing with such a sensitive issue.

My friend often gets things wrong in translation and they can normally be laughed if you don't make mistakes you don't learn but I think in this instance she should have checked first.

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YANBU - I also hate the word 'chav' and forbid the kids using as it is common use at school.

Oh I agree she really put her foot in it there. It must have been horribly embarrassing. I just don't think she had any way to know in advance that this was going to be a tricky conversation.

Onestonetogo, I know it isn't your intention to offend me, but I will correct you that on my sons notes it does in fact say learning disability, (along with lots of other stuff) but it does not say mentally retarded.

Perhaps we are prudish when it comes to medical terms or perhaps as somebody said earlier the words have been developed as a form of insult over the years that they are no longer valid medical terms.

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Goodness knows what we will all be saying in years to come.

There are probably a lot of terms in use now that will look hopelessly offensive in 50 years time.

It was emblazoned over a t shirt at a recent event we attended; I was a bit aghast as the Sn team were there too but ignored and just enjoyed the welcoming spirit of ewveryone else.

I seriosuly dounbt t-shirt wearer would haev known the origin of the term: had he done, frankly I would not have wanted to know! Easier to assume stupisity tbh

' to say someone is a dwarf? Why?
' Because the eprson is not a dwarf /autie /downs but a person with ASD / ds / dwarfism. Acknowledge the eprson first and the condition second. VV important

We may have to be politically correct in public, but I'm afraid lots of perfectly nice people (me included) loosen off our stays and use some rather nasty words in the privacy of our own homes and with our friends - heaven forbid the thought police getting hold of us. It doesn't mean we are not empathic or helpful towards those who are in anyway different.

higgle it may nt mean you are not, but its stil teaching your chioldren etc words that for my children are used as weapons against them.

Say what you will in your own home of course but when and if your child uses that word in a context you dislike, realsie where they ehard it firest and that such terms do cause pain for those of us who are in that world