to think Gavin Williamsons views on teachers have been found out and he is trying to back pedal

[cakeorwine]

Leaked WhatsApp messages about schools during Covid and re-opening.

www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/01/leaked-messages-boris-johnson-bemoaning-face-masks-u-turn

In October 2020, Williamson said publicly the following year’s exams would be postponed for a few weeks to make up teaching time. According to the leaked messages, Hancock then got in touch with his cabinet colleague to say “what a bunch of absolute arses the teaching unions are”.

Williamson replied: “I know they really really do just hate work.” Hancock then responded with a laughing emoji and a bullseye.

Dr Mary Bousted, joint general secretary of the National Education Union, said in response to the leak: “Why am I utterly unsurprised to now have it absolutely confirmed that Gavin Williamson was unfit to be secretary of state for education?”

According to Williamson, these comments were about "some unions" and he has the utmost respect for teachers who went above and beyond during the pandemic.

Yet it's the teachers who would be doing the work, not the Unions. So who was he saying who "really really just hate work"

Florenz

Teachers need to wake up and smell the coffee. If they want jobs, they need to turn up to work. If they don't want to teach, they should quit and go and do something else.

Many teachers are taking this "advice", that is why there is a massive retention crisis, (lets not mention the recruitment crisis)

Give them the choice, come to work and be paid, or don't come to work and be sacked on the spot with a total forfeiture of any pension.

Yup, lets open the doors to all of the wrongful dismissal claims from all those teachers, TBH We could do with the money, As for withholding pensions, how legal do you think that would be?

Absolutely brilliant ideas. go be goady elsewhere.

OK. I can walk into twice the pay elsewhere. Cheers.

Just don't complain when there's noone teaching your child English.

Let them leave. The education system in this country is a total mess. It needs to be totally reformed from the bottom up.

Which country?

@Florenz teachers are leaving in droves, be careful what you wish for. There is another thread currently running where a poster is saying their child is going to be taught online due to the school not being able to recruit science teachers. Many Secondary schools will be limiting their GCSE provision due to lack of subject teachers.

Schools are not replacing teachers who are leaving, either due to lack of teachers being available or due to lack of funding

@KievsOutTheOven

I haven't done that?

Also, I have kids. Who were in classrooms with teachers during covid.

When schools were open of course....

(thats a joke BTW, I know it drives teachers mental 😂)

Botw1

Youre teacher colleagues on this thread seem absolutely determined that schools closing was completely necessary.
Death and disaster otherwise.
Yet you're adamant that was not the party line from the unions?
They, in your opinion wanted schools open? Never wanted a closure?
Odd to be so out of step with members

Talking about what happened and being necessary is not the same as wanting schools to close or remain closed.

Schools closed because of the government, schools closed a second time because the government and others were adamant that schools didn't require any measures that would aid in the reduction of a virus spreading.

But you seem happy to twist what people are writing.

Can't be too soon that we see the back of this bloody awful government.

@FrippEnos

Nope.

Literally just saying unions (and some teachers) wanted them closed/not re opened.

Which is true.

The govt made the decision

That doesn't change what the unions said

But you listed all the covid mitigations that schools had, when I told you it wasn’t possible to maintain social distancing you told me it was, because tape.

Your kids are presumably in one or two schools? I have first-hand experience in maybe 14-15 schools; and I can assure you, there is NOT room for 2m social distancing.

Are your kids in primary or secondary? Are they in a new build school or an older building? Do you live in a place with a rapidly expanding population? Because all of these things have an impact on the ability to maintain 2m distancing.

What are your ideas for reform, considering the country is faced with an unprecedented amount of teachers leaving and the inability to recruit (just over half of places filled on teacher training for next year)? Have you worked in education in the last 10 years?

Why because I'm in Scotland in 1 of 4 areas specifically targeted by the union for 6 extra days of strikes not because of teaching conditions but because they want 10% and have refused every other offer.

What I don't understand about the strikes in Scotland is this -
In our local primary 7 out of the 13 teachers were on strike but the whole school was closed. I can't see why the non striking teachers couldn't do online learning for their classes. I'm presuming there's some reason why only some classes can be in school when others aren't.

@KievsOutTheOven

No.

You asked me a question.

I replied then you told me my experience was wrong because it wasn't yours.

Let's just assume I know more about my kids experience than you do.

And again, I think you are confusing Scottish and English schools. Williamson was not referencing the Scottish unions/schools. He has no jurisdiction here. John Swinney was in charge of education.

The rules were completely different in your children’s schools to many of the schools that people on this thread work in.

@KievsOutTheOven

Im not confusing anything

Aren't you the poster who all through lockdown was against re-opening of schools because of deadly second/third wave stuff.

No.

This was me:

Still waiting for those posters who say schools shouldn't have closed during lockdown to explain how schools could have stayed fully open when staff were off sick at high levels

Here's a thread for you:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4752592-utterly-disastrous-teacher-trainee-applications-for-next-year

Teachers have quit. There's no one coming to replace them. What now?

It was not recommended by the DfE so my headteacher (primary) said we were not allowed to wear them. This is despite being required to wear a mask in every other indoor public space at the time on top of the recommendation for social distancing.

From my experience what was allowed in schools at the time was contrary to what was recommended in every other public space at the time. It was very double standards and hate to accept especially on the second lockdown when I had 32 children and 2 adults in class with the only motivation being open a window, yet I couldn’t go to the cinema or a clothes shop as they were all told to close to reduce the spread of covid.

Lots of reasons.

One, nobody knows how many teachers are going to strike. Potentially nobody could turn up. Significant members have left SSTA and NUSUWT in the last few days, and joined EIS.

Two, if one of the teachers called in sick on the day, they would be out of ratio and would need to send kids home. Normally there is leeway to account for absence.

Also, to offer some kids education and not others would lead to a lot of backlash from parents who’s kid didn’t get any provision. It would lead to classes moving apart in terms of their learning - my daughter (and many others!) moves between two classes and some groups are pulled out to social areas to be taught together. And the teachers not striking can’t be asked to do online learning for those who are striking.

Whoops! Lots of typos there in my post. Motivation meant to read as mitigation and hate as hard.

@Cookiecrisps

Yeah most of the rules were batshit

Absolutely no logical sense.

Which unions called for closures?

As much as I hate the word he is a cunt and that's how much I hate him!

@Botw1 It was the double standards that I found hard to accept as in why were these mitigations insisted on in every other workplace except schools? I believe that based on the scientific data that we did need mitigations in schools at the time. The strain of Covid we had then and what we have now along with natural immunity in the population we have now is poles apart.