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Original poster

Utterly disastrous teacher trainee applications for next year

125 replies

noblegiraffe · 27/02/2023 21:34

Analysis on twitter of the current state of play of teacher training applications for September shows that the figures for secondary have barely changed from last year when the government only reached 59% of its target for secondary recruitment. This is despite massive increases in bursaries.

Really worryingly, primary teaching applicants are down 15% on last year.

twitter.com/jackworthnfer/status/1630150284683911171?s=61&t=oXSFDbmiMqnRpz_ijYIZlQ

We do not have anywhere near enough teachers. Teacher trainee numbers for last September (who schools are currently hiring to fill vacancies in September) were awful. Even school who previously didn't struggle to hire many well find themselves without teachers in September. That the year after is looking similar is unthinkable.

Classes are having different supply teachers each week. Unqualified teachers. TAs are teaching classes in primary school. A recent thread on here had classes logging into computers and watching videos of lessons instead of having lessons. Exam classes are having to teach themselves due to no teacher or no specialist teacher.

And what has the government done? Just announced another massive pay cut for teachers next year, scrapped the fee-funded schools-based training route and massively reduced the number of accredited teacher training providers for September 2024.

What. The. Hell?

Utterly disastrous teacher trainee applications for next year
Utterly disastrous teacher trainee applications for next year
OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 27/02/2023 21:39

Sam Freedman (ex advisor to Gove) says "Bursaries were basically the last policy tool the DfE had in their arsenal. If they are only holding things in the same place as last year (for secondary) we're in real trouble. I have never seen primary numbers drop like this, I don't think it's ever happened."

OP posts:
ConkerBonkers · 27/02/2023 21:44

I felt a bit like I was chewed up and spat out when I entered teaching. I think there is something to be said for schools being less accountable and scared, so there can be a shift from the pervasive culture in schools being one of fear to one of kindness, so that they can focus more easily on the retention and support of NQTs. A lot of bullies enter the teaching profession, and do well in it. Whatever it is in schools that allows this to happen also needs to go.

earsup · 27/02/2023 21:49

The last 2 I had when I was teaching and head of dept were dire....one expected absolutely everything to be provided for him, full materials etc. The other we had to hire and was always a victim and a bully but she did achieve results. so happy i got out of all that.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

General education
NastyNiff · 27/02/2023 21:49

On the grapevine I know that a private school near me recently received 100 applications for one post.

Appuskidu · 27/02/2023 21:53

I saw this earlier-I’m not surprised! I wouldn’t reach teaching these days to my worst enemy

With strikes over this year’s pay, 3% rise already decided for next year, sky high workload, recruiting support staff getting increasingly challenging and budgets on the floor-where is this week’s Education Secretary with any sort of suggestions to resolve things?!

She muttered something about reducing workload last week and there was talk about not needing a degree any more to teach, but has there been anything that might make things better?!

Appuskidu · 27/02/2023 21:54

*Reach=recommend

OldChinaJug · 27/02/2023 21:56

She muttered something about reducing workload last week and there was talk about not needing a degree any more to teach, but has there been anything that might make things better?!

Fucksake.

It was only a few years ago they decided everyone entering teacher training would have to have a Masters degree!

CallmeAngelina · 27/02/2023 22:02

DH works in ITE. A few years back they had around 140 students for the primary B.ED (accepting A grade passes, high UCAS point counts and no need to go through clearing etc - they could have accepted 200 if allowed).
They're now down to around 60 - with massively lowered thresholds for entry. And this is a good provider, doing well with Ofsted.
Yes, there are other avenues into teaching than a B.Ed but it's still pretty shocking.

barbrahunter · 27/02/2023 22:04

ConkerBonkers · 27/02/2023 21:44

I felt a bit like I was chewed up and spat out when I entered teaching. I think there is something to be said for schools being less accountable and scared, so there can be a shift from the pervasive culture in schools being one of fear to one of kindness, so that they can focus more easily on the retention and support of NQTs. A lot of bullies enter the teaching profession, and do well in it. Whatever it is in schools that allows this to happen also needs to go.

Completely agree.

Whatafielddayfortheheat · 27/02/2023 22:06

I was a primary teacher. I was bullied out after maternity leave when I returned and the leadership team had changed (head retired and deputy didn't like new head so also left; assistant head was on maternity leave herself).

I can say this because it's an anonymous forum, slate me if you wish but I'm being honest. I have a degree from Oxbridge, worked in a career of significant prestige and importance before becoming a teacher. I worked 13 hour days as a teacher, I was incredibly dedicated. Kids and parents loved me. I was passionate about my work. But it wasn't enough. If I'm not good enough to teach early years then I don't really know what they do want.

barbrahunter · 27/02/2023 22:07

They want cheap and malleable, @Whatafielddayfortheheat

Meyou23 · 27/02/2023 22:08

I am a teacher with zero qualifications. The school approached me. Without sounding up myself, I don’t know what they would have done if I had said no.

The situation is awful. And I am not in the UK, so it is not an isolated problem

Notateacheranymore · 27/02/2023 22:10

I did 16 years and seriously considered ending things as I couldn't see a way out to a different life.

My DH convinced and assured me it was ok to resign, and I did a week after my rock bottom day. That was 10y ago in Dec 2023, and although I miss standing in front of a bunch of kids, I don't miss all the bullshit. Been working in call centres and office job since then, but at least my 40h a week is 40h even if my salary is 1/2 what it was. A PPI claim in 2018 saved us.

gogohmm · 27/02/2023 22:11

I considered training but I can't afford not to earn at least £15k min during training and can't afford more debt due to my age (I need to be putting money into savings and pensions). You would think they might want us older career changers as we are less likely to quit

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 27/02/2023 22:11

Meyou23 · 27/02/2023 22:08

I am a teacher with zero qualifications. The school approached me. Without sounding up myself, I don’t know what they would have done if I had said no.

The situation is awful. And I am not in the UK, so it is not an isolated problem

It would be interesting to know what you think the problems are in your country, and what your country is doing to tackle the problem?

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 27/02/2023 22:13

gogohmm · 27/02/2023 22:11

I considered training but I can't afford not to earn at least £15k min during training and can't afford more debt due to my age (I need to be putting money into savings and pensions). You would think they might want us older career changers as we are less likely to quit

What did you want to train as? There are significant tax free bursaries available for many secondary subjects - in some cases way more than you'd actually earn as a teacher.

OP posts:
Tubofroses · 27/02/2023 22:14

I did a PGCE after being made redundant several years ago now, I'd have never considered it if I hadn't lost my job though. Its a huge gamble to take out yet more student loan and live off of less money than you're probably already on (unless you do a bursary subject) to enter a profession you know is on its knees.

As well although i personally hate working from home the reality is that to many people jobs such as teaching, nursing etc just aren't appealing when there are hybrid jobs on offer sometimes for better pay. I don't blame graduates for looking elsewhere.

Not sure of the solution really, even with better staffing and pay there are a lot of deep issues in education that aren't easily solved. Unless there's bigger bursaries, training is more accessible and the career is more appealing there's no chance.

CountlesScreamingArgonauts · 27/02/2023 22:14

Just before I opened this thread, I was wondering aloud to DH why England doesn't have a recruitment drive here in Scotland, where teachers wait years for a permanent job after qualifying, and there are hundreds of applicants for jobs.

dapsnotplimsolls · 27/02/2023 22:16

gogohmm · 27/02/2023 22:11

I considered training but I can't afford not to earn at least £15k min during training and can't afford more debt due to my age (I need to be putting money into savings and pensions). You would think they might want us older career changers as we are less likely to quit

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/funding-and-support/scholarships-and-bursaries?&&&&gclid=c50b6790861910f1761e046dad3d60bf&gclsrc=3p.ds&msclkid=c50b6790861910f1761e046dad3d60bf

Appuskidu · 27/02/2023 22:18

You would think they might want us older career changers as we are less likely to quit

Interesting….all of the career changers I know who went into teaching, very quickly left!

HelpNeeded7 · 27/02/2023 22:18

gogohmm · 27/02/2023 22:11

I considered training but I can't afford not to earn at least £15k min during training and can't afford more debt due to my age (I need to be putting money into savings and pensions). You would think they might want us older career changers as we are less likely to quit

Gogohmm, I have heard that I am getting an interview for a local tech for a teaching role. I will teach and do my PGCE at same time. Could that be an option for you? I am told I would earn a starting 30k salary. Is FE an option for you to look into?

Meyou23 · 27/02/2023 22:20

noblegiraffe · 27/02/2023 22:11

It would be interesting to know what you think the problems are in your country, and what your country is doing to tackle the problem?

Show quote history

Shortage of teachers- Too much unpaid overtime, too much stress. Plus a growing population.

To tackle the problem, there is a big recruitment drive. Plenty of courses for newcomers either free or reimbursed. Lots of support on both a local and government level

saraclara · 27/02/2023 22:22

Appuskidu · 27/02/2023 22:18

You would think they might want us older career changers as we are less likely to quit

Interesting….all of the career changers I know who went into teaching, very quickly left!

Same at my school. Three middle aged career change teachers. Two lasted a couple of years, the other left after one.

It simply wasn't the job they thought it would be.

permanentholiday · 27/02/2023 22:23

I left the profession recently after 16 years, 7 as DH. Fed up with the stress, ridiculous hours and being verbally attacked by parents and physically attacked by children on a regular basis (primary - not special school.) Not enough support staff, no time to train them (no one specialist to train them) not enough special school places for the most vulnerable and damaged. The last 18 months was hell. It has to change but I don’t know how it will I’m just glad to be out of it. It’s very sad!

dapsnotplimsolls · 27/02/2023 22:24

Three teachers at my school left last year to do non-teaching jobs.

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