someone tell me what crime has been committed?

[Weefreetiffany]

Baffled by this story

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11810311/Woman-49-convicted-manslaughter-raising-hand-elderly-cyclist-collision.html

on what grounds are the prosecuting the pedestrian? It seems an absolute stretch to think that her gesticulating and “radiant her hand” at a cyclist for driving towards her on a pavement is wilful manslaughter? I can see how it’s a tragic, very unfortunate accident but how did this make it to court?

The atmosphere is this country is so toxic to middle aged women at the moment- what is going on?!

Next time I'm on a pavement that's not wide enough for a bike and a pedestrian side by side, I'm going to just let the bike crash into me because I wouldn't want to go to jail.

Blimey that's a lot.

If there a cycle rushing towards her about to knock her over and possibly break her hip?
I've seen so many news stories of people being knocked over by bikes and being severely injured.

Most cyclists ring bells or shout here and most pedestrians get out the way - but if you can't it is an issue and then bikers tend to dismount or go round you in road if there a dropped curb.

I did an OU course with a man losing his sight - it was so gradually he hadn't really noticed lost of peripheral vision - but he had several occasions when bike suddenly came out of nowhere at him as he walked home along a canal path- said it was terrifying and that when he realised something was wrong.

So while I don't think we should be deliberately endangering cyclists even if they shouldn't be on that pavement - I wonder if enough weight has been given to how frightening it can be as a pedestrian with bike coming at you - I do find there is a section of population who drive everywhere and don't realise they aren't seeing and experiencing what regular pedestrians do.

@JumbleSailor the lamppost looks to be next to the fence and not next to the road.

If the police don't know if the path is a shared cycle/pedestrian path what hope do the users have?

I wonder if the combination of the pedestrian moving across the path towards the cyclist and then leaving the scene of the accident to go to Sainsburys is why she was charged and then found guilty? I don't believe the cyclist was charging towards her due to her age and being on a shopper type bike, but she might have felt vulnerable due to her poor eyesight and cerebral palsy.

Either way, this is a sad situation where someone has lost her life.

I’m surprised by the three years, I think it’s harsh. There may be a chip on my plebeian shoulder but it often feels like you can buy a much more lenient sentence with an expensive legal team.

The pedestrian was heard on video saying get off the fucking pavement, and waving her arms about

the 77 year old was an experienced cyclists

a needless death

3 years in prison for the other

How sad is this story. The cyclist died it’s horrendous

Not sure about sentencing tbh as would have to hear evidence both ways

The fact the pedestrian left the scene will have mist probably not gone in their favour, just as a hit and run driver

the fact she is heard verbally abusing the cyclist on the video, which shows aggression will have not gone in her favour

OK I regularly cycle on a shared path( red tarmac for bikes, black for pedestrians) pedestrians regularly walk on the red bit. It's annoying but as a reasonable human I respond by slowing down, cycling round them, maybe using my bell or a cheery hello. What I don't do is stick my arm out, causing someone to fall into the traffic. If I did it would be manslaughter.

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/news/item/manslaughter-explained/

unlawful act or involuntary manslaughter.
If you shout, gesticulate etc and thereby commit common assault which leads to somebody dying, the threshold is met.

The leniency and discretion would be in the sentencing.

What is little more than an accident can thereby easily lead to a Manslaughter conviction.

there is cctv of the incident. The pedestrian did swear and raise her hand. The interpretation of the hand movement is up for debate, to me it didn't seem "aggressive" or that she was trying to scare or shove the cyclist out of the way.
The pedestrian also has cerebral palsy, she may not be able to get out of the way of a cyclist in time which is why she was moving her hand and shouting.
To me it looks like an awful accident. But the courts have decided that it is manslaughter and jailed the pedestrian for 3 years, I'm assuming they may have had more evidence than what has been released to the press.

What a tragic case
The women should have helped the cyclist, not walked off. That
action alone makes it extremely serious
The officer in charge of the case commented we should all take care and be more considerate to road users
I wonder if any culpability was put on the cyclist as she was committing a crime cycling on a footpath with little room for both pedestrian and cyclist.
I wonder how the cyclist intended to avoid pedestrians on the footpath, maybe everyone moves out of her way usually and she’s got used to that.

It doesn’t mean the pedestrian is innocent of course but I do worry that if anyone was in a similar situation how do we avoid getting hurt by a cyclist breaking the law other than moving out of the way and hence allowing them to continue breaking the law.
Pedestrians need safe spaces to walk.
It will be interesting to see what sentence is handed down….for all pedestrians sake.

There are plenty of pavements near me where it's not clear that it's a shared path, and/or pedestrians don't bother looking. They expect a line down the centre of the pavement separating the two; however (a) not all shared paths have this (b) sometimes the line has faded (c) some (a lot of) pedestrians just walk wherever they like without paying any attention to what's going on around them. You might have a shared path sign every couple of hundred metres, but if the pedestrian can't see one near them, they conclude that this section of the path isn't shared use.

I saw the CCTV, it looked like the cyclist was going slow by the way they ended up in the road. But you can clearly see the pedestrian shouting "get off the fucking pavement" and pushing her arm out towards the cyclist as she did. It looked like a push rather than a gesture. The cyclist was thrown off balance by the 'connection' and into the path of an oncoming car.

I think justice has been served, such a sad waste of life.

It is bizarre but it makes more sense now that I've read that the pedestrain left the cyclist there. I'm not sure that the pedestrian would have known that the cyclist was 77/elderly as she was very fit and lithe and had a helmet on. It's all so sad. I can understand that the pedestrain was incensed given that she has cerebal palsy and partial sight. It is pretty damning though that she didn't stay, perhaps that is what swayed the jury.

I have a balance disorder and I'm sick to death of fast cyclists coming up behind me on pavements, drivers who don't indicate if they are turning and people with dogs off the lead that come bouncing/jumping up on me. During lockdown a cyclist kicked me off a path into a road as he had no wish to slow down. Pedestrians are lowest in the pecking order - we always have to shove out of the way, even when we have DC with us and half the narrow pavement has been given over to cyclists as a cheap way to create a cycle lane,so can't walk with DC abreast. However, I think most decent people would stay at the scene of an accident that they had caused/contributed to.

proper cyle lanes ( not taking half a pavement over or "mixed" use) are needed.

Yes I think common assault definition is key it is about raised fists/arms and threatening words (which are definitely heard) being enough to make the victim think they are about to be attacked. The cyclist reaction is because she thinks she is going to be attacked (and it is the victims perception here) and because of that she goes into the road. An action which causes her death.

Auriol Grey probably was not going to attack her but that doesn’t matter. In that instance the cyclist believed she was going to and acted accordingly, that is enough for the threshold of common assault to be met. Once that is met then the common assault led to death so it is manslaughter

What help do you expect a disabled person with bad eye sight to give? She had passed her and fallen in front of a car. I saw her turn to look back. She was maybe in shock a bit but saw the traffic was stopping so went on with her day.

I do worry that if anyone was in a similar situation how do we avoid getting hurt by a cyclist breaking the law other than moving out of the way and hence allowing them to continue breaking the law.

Christ.

Yes, do move out of the way. It's shit that someone has put you in danger, and it's slightly less shit to respond by putting them in danger. I think pavement cycling by adults is mostly incredibly annoying and inconsiderate but there are appropriate responses that don't result in people dying

What help do you expect a disabled person with bad eye sight to give

Call for help? Besides she was a witness at the very least. I'd expect her to stick around. Especially under the circumstances. It's basic human decency.

It does seem a harsh sentence, but I suspect the lack of remorse will have something to do with it (as commented on my the judge).

The defendant has already said she will appeal the sentence, so it looks like it was harsher than the legal team expected.

Maybe stopping to explain that she'd aggressively shouted at the woman, and 'made light contact' with her, pushing her off balance and into the road and oncoming traffic?

AG got three years custodial sentence for this, and manslaughter carries no mandatory custodial sentence, the judge could have given her community service or a suspended sentence.

Therefore on top of what we know:

That she did step towards and admits she may have made light contact with the cyclist.
That she did intentionally, not accidentally, raise her hand to the cyclist.
She did NOT step away or attempt to avoid a collision.
She was evasive when interviewed.
She did leave the scene and didn't appear to show remorse

We can also see that her CP does not seem to severely affect her ability to walk, presumably nor does her visual impairment or she'd be using some sort of aid, she can clearly see the cyclist and does not attempt to avoid them.

There must be factors we do NOT know here, like how soon after the incident did she leave the scene? Did she make any attempt to help the victim?

She could also have been given a much longer sentence, life is possible (though rare) for manslaughter.

Not that I think the cyclists behaviour is actually relevant here, after all if she had committed a crime in cycling where she did, it still wouldn't exonerate AG - if the police can't quite work out if thats a shared use path or not, its pretty reasonable to suspect the victim did not believe herself to be breaking the law!

Pedestrians and cyclists are left with tiny amounts of space. The elephant in the room is vast amounts of space ( roads, on street parking etc) is handed over to cars. And which groups are least likely to have cars, the poor, women and the elderly. 100s of Pedestrians and cyclists are killed by car drivers each year. They don't get generally the headlines ( beyond local news) as it is just accepted as part of life. .

The woman shouldn’t have been cycling on the pavement. The other woman was telling her this and if she’s partially sighted and has cerebral palsy, even more reason for her to feel safe on the pavement. She didn’t hit her, she gestured to her and the cyclist still should have checked before veering in to the road! Also she wasn’t wearing a helmet? I feel yes this is very sad, but she didn’t push her into the road and she shouldn’t have been on the pavement in the beginning!!

There’s a different sentencing guideline for manslaughter than that for causing death by dangerous or careless driving.