Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the US paediatrician system is weird

474 replies

shaniahoo · 25/02/2023 13:07

I'm on a few parenting groups that are American and the way they talk about their pediatrician is so alien to me. The ped seems to have a lot of power. Like, the hard line of these groups is that you always follow your ped's advice and nobody is allowed to question what a poster's pediatrician told them. But a lot of it seems like non-medical parenting advice? Everyone has their ped tell them when to start solids and they follow that - so they might tell you to start at 4 months so you do that or if they tell you to start at 6 months you do that. And everyone has to have their paediatrician "clear" their baby to start solids before they start. And the ped "clears" you to start sleep training or tells you you must do it or must not do it, and you do what they say. I suppose the equivalent here is the HV but you don't see them nearly so much and there's no sense among parents that you must do whatever your HV says.
AIBU to think this takes autonomy away from parents? Or is it great that they have so much advice and support?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
saltinesandcoffeecups · 26/02/2023 13:37

JarByTheDoor · 26/02/2023 05:45

@mathanxiety what I'm "on about" is the poster's justification of a scenario that, whether it's what actually happens or not, would be unethical and yes, paternalistic.

Poster 1 says that you only have to get the exam (referring to a pelvic exam, not just a smear) if you're going on the pill. Implying that to get the pill, you have to have the exam.

Poster 2 says that's completely unnecessary. And it is. As you say in your long, irrelevant description of what happens at an appointment, it's done if indicated.

saltinesandcoffecups then says Yes and no… it’s a way to gate keep to make sure a large portion of the population are getting preventative care. So in that sense it works…. It is overkill IMHO for an otherwise healthy woman, but again it’s the medical guidance and for sure will identify more costly and health devastating conditions earlier.

Whether this scenario actually happens or not, the poster is making an argument for "gatekeeping" contraceptive pills by requiring an "overkill" exam before being prescribed them, with the aim of "making sure a large portion of the population are getting preventative care". So, not recommending the exam because "the pill is not candy", but because access to the pill is good leverage to get women to do what you want.

That's the argument she's making and it's a bad, paternalistic argument. I haven't the foggiest idea what they do in American gynaecology appointments for 16yos and TBH I skimmed that bit of your post because it's not what I'm talking about. Even if there is a genuine reason to do a pelvic exam before prescribing the pill, that genuine reason is not what the poster was arguing for.

Oh do stop twisting my words to justify your bizarre position

MsMD · 26/02/2023 13:37

The pediatrician system is amazing. He already knows my DD, and whereas in the UK you just go for vaccines and leave, our vaccine appointments also come with a visit to actually see the pediatrician who does a quick check up, asks us questions and answers ours, then sends us on our way. If DD is sick, I call the office and they see her that day.

As for Gynecologists, I have one I see every year. PAPs can be annual, every 3 years, or declined if you want. So can internal exams. They also do breast exams if you want, and show you how to check them yourself. If you don't want all of this or have no other concerns, you can get basic things like birth control from your GP/Primary care. In many places its incredibly easy to get an appointment whenever you want one.

There is a lot more prevention care and a lot more access to medical professionals.

This is the plus of private Healthcare.

The negative is all of the above is only available to the privileged people who have insurance, and some doctors really do over prescribe tests and medication to bill more to your insurance. For us to have the easy access to doctors I describe, we have to acknowledge it's only that easy because so many don't have access and that is wrong.

Signed a US doctor.

dreamingbohemian · 26/02/2023 13:53

Lastnamedidntstick · 26/02/2023 13:22

I have no direct experience of the US system, except when my Nan had a stroke on holiday out there and they refused to treat her until the insurance company had given the ok- not an easy task when it’s the middle of the night UK time!

but I have had some experience of over treatment in the private sector here, and that does scare me.

You cannot refuse to give lifesaving treatment in US hospitals, even if people are uninsured.

They will definitely ask you for your insurance right away but if you are having a stroke and show up at an ER, they will treat you.

dreamingbohemian · 26/02/2023 14:00

It really blows my mind that at a time when the NHS is falling apart when you have elderly people breaking a hip and lying in their own waste for 18 hours, in terrible pain, because there are no ambulances or people are dying of cancer because it took so long to get diagnosed and treated -- that there are people here slagging off the US because it's too easy to see specialist doctors.

It really comes down to different expectations of your health service. So many people in the UK buy this idea that they are so lucky to have the NHS, they shouldn't use it unless their arm is falling off, whereas in the US and EU people see healthcare as a basic right that they pay for with their taxes and of course they will use it in any way possible to stay healthy.

People on this thread keep talking about NHS risk analysis as justifying lack of care, as if that analysis is objective and not driven by costs. In the US they test for Strep B and vaccinate for chicken pox because children do die of these things and they are easily preventable. Whereas the NHS analysis is -- well, not THAT many children die from them, so let's not spend any money on it.

There has massive issues with US healthcare but preventive care is an amazing thing, it would really help British people so much if it were properly invested in here.

2bazookas · 26/02/2023 14:02

MarshaMelrose · 25/02/2023 14:23

I’m in the UK and have had three in the last decade. Two privately and one NHS. It takes longer to get a referral to NHS but once you’re in the system you just call their secretary.

Say what now? You have a nhs gynaecologist that you can make an appointment with at any time just by ringing the secretary? No gp referral? Is this person for life, then, covering all issues? Have you got that with all specialisms?

I've had exactly that service from both my NHS gynaecologist and my NHS dermatologists. DH still has that arrangement with his NHS urologist.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 26/02/2023 14:04

2bazookas · 26/02/2023 14:02

I've had exactly that service from both my NHS gynaecologist and my NHS dermatologists. DH still has that arrangement with his NHS urologist.

So all those threads I’ve read here from women in agony waiting for months/years to see a gynecologist are fiction?

2bazookas · 26/02/2023 14:17

Cantstandbullshitanymore · 25/02/2023 18:55

I’ve lived in the US 8 usages and never ever been asked for blood test every 6 months, not even once.

Our NHS GP service calls me in by text (and all older patients) for annual bloods, urine, weight, BP check. Followed by a results text that either says "everything normal" or " XYZ high/low, make an appointment to see Dr or nurse.".

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 26/02/2023 14:20

www.rcog.org.uk/news/more-than-half-a-million-women-face-prolonged-waits-for-gynaecology-care/

More than half a million women face prolonged waits for gynaecology care
4 Apr 2022
Women face extreme pain, heavy bleeding, and poor mental health as waiting lists reach record numbers

New data shows gynaecology waiting lists have faced the biggest increase of all medical specialities
Women living with debilitating symptoms say they are suffering with poor mental health as more than 1 in 20 people in England face a year long wait for treatment
The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) is calling for an overhaul of the way the NHS prioritises treatment
The RCOG has today published a report revealing the devastating impact on the 570,000 women in the UK who are facing prolonged waits for gynaecology appointments, diagnoses and treatments.

Concerns around how these delays are affecting both women’s physical and mental health have led to the RCOG calling for an overhaul of how gynaecology care and treatments are prioritised by the NHS, looking beyond clinical need and recognising the severe impact on quality of life.

A survey conducted by the RCOG of 837* women who are waiting for gynaecology care revealed the impact these waits are having, with:

Four fifths (80%) of women saying their mental health has worsened due to the wait
1 in 4 of those whose mental health had deteriorated, pain was given as a reason.
More than three quarters (77%) of women saying that their ability to work or take part in social activities had been negatively impacted.
61% saying they felt despair at the long waits, and 63% feeling ignored.
Rachael is 44 and lives in the North West with her husband and two children. She is waiting for treatment for her prolapse following an initial appointment with a gynaecologist, and is also experiencing difficult symptoms from the perimenopause:

“It was in 2019 that I first saw a gynaecologist for prolapse and was referred both to a pessary clinic and to a women’s health physio. Since then, I have had multiple pessaries that haven’t managed to alleviate the symptoms from the prolapse, and I was put on the waiting list for surgery before the start of the COVID-19 pandemic. I have been waiting ever since.
I have mixed messages each time I speak to a consultant or a member of staff at the hospital about when my surgery might be.
“I had to give up work last year because I just feel exhausted a lot of the time. I’m no longer interested in socialising unless I know I can sit down, or won’t be walking too far. I can’t even do gentle exercise without the pain that follows, it just aggravates it. I’m just trying to bring up two young kids, and keep physically well, and it makes everything so much harder. I feel like my whole life is on pause.”

The pandemic led to non-urgent elective treatments being paused, and throughout each wave has prevented the NHS from delivering much of the planned care it ordinarily would. This has created the biggest backlog in elective care the NHS has ever seen.

Even before the pandemic, gynaecology waiting lists were growing, with the growth of waiting lists outstripping other specialties since April 2018. Analysis provided by LCP Health Analytics has shown that since the start of the pandemic, gynaecology waiting lists have grown by 59% to over 570,000.

The worry of waiting for care, not knowing when they will be treated, the inability to plan ahead, and the prospect of continuing to manage symptoms whilst they wait, are the emerging themes that have caused many women’s mental health to suffer.

In England, the number of women waiting over a year for treatment has gone from less than one in one thousand women on the waiting list before the pandemic to more than one in 20.

There is also stark geographical variation in the length of gynaecology waiting lists across England, with the North West having 8 out of the 10 worst affected Clinical Commissioning Groups (CCGs). This is creating a post code lottery for gynaecological case. Comparing the worst affected CCG with the least affected CCG shows that the worst affected has a waiting list over five times larger than that of the CCG with the lowest waiting list.

Gynaecologists have raised concerns that the long-term management of pain and symptoms is becoming unsustainable for women and people with these conditions, and is having a negative impact on their quality of life. The consequences for many women has limited their ability to work, to socialise, impacted on their relationships and family life.

The RCOG’s report ‘Left for too long: understanding the scale and impact of gynaecology waiting lists’ makes a series of recommendations to improve the situation for women. These include changing the way care is prioritised by the NHS, focusing funding on areas where waiting lists are longest to end the postcode lottery, and ring-fencing funding for recovery and long-term sustainability of elective gynaecology.

Rebecca Sloan, Women’s health lead at LCP, commented: “The pandemic has exacerbated already large waiting lists for women needing gynaecology treatment across the country, with gynaecology waiting lists increasing at one of the fastest rates of all specialities between April 2018 and February 2020 and since the pandemic the waiting list has continued to increase at the highest rate of all other specialities.
While waiting lists show the amount of people currently waiting, they don’t show the true scale because there are many people who have health issues but have not yet come forward for treatment due to the pandemic.

“This hidden health need is likely to overstretch an already pressured NHS if resources aren’t urgently diverted to the parts of the country where waiting times are at crisis point. There is the risk that thousands more women could be living with discomfort, pain and a real impact on their lives if action isn’t taken.”

Dr Edward Morris, President of the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, said:

“Hundreds of thousands of women with gynaecological conditions across the UK are being forced to tolerate extreme pain and debilitating symptoms because of unacceptable waiting lists for diagnosis and treatment.

“As a consultant gynaecologist, I personally feel helpless speaking to women about the impact these waits are having on both their physical and mental health, and not being able to do anything to speed up their access to care.
“We believe the reason gynaecology waiting lists have seen the biggest growth is because time and again we see women’s health consistently deprioritised and overlooked. At its core it is gender bias and it’s reflective of society as a whole. Women are being let down and change is urgently needed.

“The RCOG is calling for an overhaul of the way the NHS prioritises treatment, looking beyond clinical need recognising the suffering of these women. The NHS must take meaningful action to ensure that those on waiting lists are given priority based on the impact that their conditions are having on their quality of life as a whole – especially as we emerge from the pandemic.”

MarshaMelrose · 26/02/2023 14:20

2bazookas · 26/02/2023 14:02

I've had exactly that service from both my NHS gynaecologist and my NHS dermatologists. DH still has that arrangement with his NHS urologist.

I'm amazed...I mean in a good way. My mum is under a cardiologist. She's had him for 20 years. But when she has a problem, she can't just ring his secretary for an appointment, she has to go back to the gp. Once she's referred, then she can ring his secretary. With her dementia, she's still under the memory clinic and we can ring them direct with any problems. But once her medication is stabilised and they're happy with her health, then she's discharged back to the gp. But you're saying, you never get discharged so you never have to wait to see them. That's interesting.

MarshaMelrose · 26/02/2023 14:26

2bazookas · 26/02/2023 14:17

Our NHS GP service calls me in by text (and all older patients) for annual bloods, urine, weight, BP check. Followed by a results text that either says "everything normal" or " XYZ high/low, make an appointment to see Dr or nurse.".

Yes, my mum gets this, too. I dont know what age it starts at, though. And, honestly, it sounds more impressive than it actually is.

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 26/02/2023 14:26

MarshaMelrose · 26/02/2023 14:20

I'm amazed...I mean in a good way. My mum is under a cardiologist. She's had him for 20 years. But when she has a problem, she can't just ring his secretary for an appointment, she has to go back to the gp. Once she's referred, then she can ring his secretary. With her dementia, she's still under the memory clinic and we can ring them direct with any problems. But once her medication is stabilised and they're happy with her health, then she's discharged back to the gp. But you're saying, you never get discharged so you never have to wait to see them. That's interesting.

Similar with MIL. Just going round and round in circles trying to get her care arranged via the GP.

Eventually we gave up and she goes private for everything. Sometimes insurance pays, often it doesn’t.

Totally a two-tier system.

MarshaMelrose · 26/02/2023 14:33

@ZZTopGuitarSolo I actually think the nhs is set up to be so awkward that old people can't cope and they just give up, go away and die, thus saving the nhs money. My mum was referred to the cardiologist last summer and we get calls from time to time to ask if she still needs an appointment, ie is she still alive. And yet still no appointment.
How do old people with no relatives actually cope?

2bazookas · 26/02/2023 14:53

saltinesandcoffeecups · 26/02/2023 14:04

So all those threads I’ve read here from women in agony waiting for months/years to see a gynecologist are fiction?

I've got 76 years personal experience of NHS services in three UK countries; and can only tell you my own experience.

Nobody in my family or acquaintance has ever waited "in agony" to see any kind of DR. We 've all had major health problems and we all use the NHS.

One of THE great strengths of the NHS is the free, ubiquitous health and treatment advice available to all in multiple languages and formats. Despite which it often falls on deaf ears, or missed by inattentive people with very limited reading comprehension.

Have you ever noticed that in MN?

saltinesandcoffeecups · 26/02/2023 15:12

2bazookas · 26/02/2023 14:53

I've got 76 years personal experience of NHS services in three UK countries; and can only tell you my own experience.

Nobody in my family or acquaintance has ever waited "in agony" to see any kind of DR. We 've all had major health problems and we all use the NHS.

One of THE great strengths of the NHS is the free, ubiquitous health and treatment advice available to all in multiple languages and formats. Despite which it often falls on deaf ears, or missed by inattentive people with very limited reading comprehension.

Have you ever noticed that in MN?

I guess your family is lucky or these women are lying… first page of a search for the past year www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4737529-crying-over-a-year-wait-for-gynecologists?reply=123711974

RichardMarxisinnocent · 26/02/2023 15:21

2bazookas · 26/02/2023 14:02

I've had exactly that service from both my NHS gynaecologist and my NHS dermatologists. DH still has that arrangement with his NHS urologist.

You say you've had that service from gynae and dermatology? So you had it in the past and no longer have it, so it's not like the US system where it's for life and for any condition you may develop? That sounds like Patient Initiated Follow Up where for a long term condition, or for a period of time after treatment, a patient can phone and ask for a follow-up appointment.

SueVineer · 26/02/2023 15:24

PurBal · 25/02/2023 13:24

@CharlotteStreetW1 I’m in the UK and have had three in the last decade. Two privately and one NHS. It takes longer to get a referral to NHS but once you’re in the system you just call their secretary.

@shaniahoo I wonder if it’s money led? Eg I watched a couple of US pregnancy videos on YouTube and they’re always talking about the huge number of tests their OB/GYN is sending them for. My British friend had a baby in the US and they rang her on a Sunday night saying she needed to go in because a test was abnormal. It turns out that it was fractionally so and in the UK wouldn’t have been flagged. But it meant they could claim off her insurance for a second test. In the meantime she freaked out about her baby.

I saw my ob/gyn every 2 weeks when I was pregnant in the us. I don’t think good medical care is a bad thing.

Wishawisha · 26/02/2023 15:27

I find it mind boggling how people with so many years of training and qualifications must spend 99% of their time talking about normal infant sleep (not really anything to do with a doctor?!) or doing routine check ups on perfectly healthy babies.

Wishawisha · 26/02/2023 15:28

SueVineer · 26/02/2023 15:24

I saw my ob/gyn every 2 weeks when I was pregnant in the us. I don’t think good medical care is a bad thing.

But are outcomes really better?

OutofEverything · 26/02/2023 15:29

Outcomes are much worse in the US for pregnant and post natal women.

OutofEverything · 26/02/2023 15:30

@Wishawisha I suppose it is easy money.

OutofEverything · 26/02/2023 15:33

saltinesandcoffeecups · 26/02/2023 15:12

I guess your family is lucky or these women are lying… first page of a search for the past year www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4737529-crying-over-a-year-wait-for-gynecologists?reply=123711974

The OP in that thread had irregular periods so thought she had endomitosis. We do not have enough Drs in the UK whatever the system, so routine concerns will wait a long while.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 26/02/2023 15:35

OutofEverything · 26/02/2023 15:33

The OP in that thread had irregular periods so thought she had endomitosis. We do not have enough Drs in the UK whatever the system, so routine concerns will wait a long while.

And in the US I see my gynecologist yearly as routine so I can bring up concerns as soon as they start or schedule an appointment with them immediately when something comes up. Isn’t that the point of this whole thread?

HamBone · 26/02/2023 15:37

OutofEverything · 26/02/2023 15:29

Outcomes are much worse in the US for pregnant and post natal women.

I think it’s difficult to make accurate comparisons between healthcare in the US and the UK: 331 million, ethnically diverse population in a vast country with different healthcare provisions in every state vs. 67 million, less diverse with a nationalized healthcare system.

In some American states with good healthcare provisions, the outcomes are probably better than the UK; in others with worse provisions, they’ll be worse.

I’ve lived in both countries and had good healthcare in both, tbh. 🤷

WMH · 26/02/2023 15:39

Wishawisha · 26/02/2023 15:27

I find it mind boggling how people with so many years of training and qualifications must spend 99% of their time talking about normal infant sleep (not really anything to do with a doctor?!) or doing routine check ups on perfectly healthy babies.

It is medicalisation of normal processes which are not medical issues.

We make a concerted effort in uk to NOT medicalise things that are not illnesses
Women in US can claim disability benefit when on maternity leave. In uk we're horrified if pregnancy gets treated as an "illness" or "disability"

saltinesandcoffeecups · 26/02/2023 15:42

WMH · 26/02/2023 15:39

It is medicalisation of normal processes which are not medical issues.

We make a concerted effort in uk to NOT medicalise things that are not illnesses
Women in US can claim disability benefit when on maternity leave. In uk we're horrified if pregnancy gets treated as an "illness" or "disability"

Oh stop… it’s called short term disability but it’s just the employer insurance that pays maternity leave. It is not a mechanism to classify pregnancy as a disability. Try again…