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As a teacher to be surprised at how many in my class have SEN?

319 replies

Floatingcactus · 25/02/2023 09:01

I teach a reception class of 26. 4 of them have an EHCP plan, 6 are waiting assessment and at least another 4 are showing possible signs of SEN including speech delay.

I’ve been teaching for 10 years and I personally believe there is an increase.
I don’t know if lockdown plays a part or whether it’s down to other factors.

OP posts:
SeekingBalance · 25/02/2023 11:23

Absolutely, I'm a senco and the work load is unbelievable...we're all scratching our heads at this increase!
I do have some personal ideas regarding the matter which I would never post but as someone whose been in the job many years external/environmental factors must be playing a part.

pennylanestrawberries · 25/02/2023 11:24

Moonicorn · 25/02/2023 09:06

The bar has massively lowered as to what SEN is.

I’m not sure why people are taking offence at this, I think it’s very obviously true. Surely most of us remember children in our class at school who were written off as “naughty” or who struggled with their reading, spelling etc. Many of them would have been diagnosed with SEN if they were at school today.

I think there are a lot of other factors as well though.

Goldenbear · 25/02/2023 11:25

Where it is environmental factors surely the literacy levels have an impact. Reading books has declined and in some households there are 'no' books. A PP mentioned Rhyme time and not accessing those services under 5, this must have an impact. Not going to libraries, not having a library nearby! Reading for pleasure is more important for children's cognitive development than their parents' level of education and is a more powerful factor in life achievement than socio-economic background. I am truly shocked at the number of Extra curricular software providers my youngest was asked to use in her primary years compared to my son who is 4 years older. She is in year 7 now and it continues, all the homework is in need of a tablet and no textbooks. Even English literature seems to be summarising books/plays(Shakespeare needs to be read, performed and seen on stage, it is not a novel) which you can easily do from looking on YouTube or the internet, no need to actually 'read' anything. I work with varying age ranges and I have discussed the books like Julia Donaldson or the Julia Donaldson song books which my DC would listen to and sing along with, we would also do small performances with the songbooks which was excellent for their vocabulary, most colleagues with toddlers has never heard of her and I work in the education sector!

Phineyj · 25/02/2023 11:25

That's really interesting @fukuraptor. There may be something in that. Certainly when I look at my 80-something parents, they are not "elderly" in the way their own (surviving) parents were at 80. In the Pilates class I go to, there is an 80 and 90 year old. The 90 year old is much bendier than me...

pennylanestrawberries · 25/02/2023 11:25

Myjobisanightmare · 25/02/2023 11:23

I’m sure I saw an article about this this week, saying that there’s a lot of marrying relatives in some ethnic communities and it’s causing a disproportionate amount of SEN

Yes this is an issue in my part of London where there are a lot of marriages within families.

AliceinSlumberland · 25/02/2023 11:27

MarshaBradyo · 25/02/2023 11:19

I know it’s not right to make blanket statements but just to go against idea it’s a type of parent. As what I see makes me feel that’s unfair on some.

In my job I’d say it’s about 30% of parents are hugely invested, attentive, really support their child’s development. 50% poor parenting but not intentionally, often due to the parents own needs, what they’ve experienced as a child, cultural norms etc. and 20% genuinely shit parenting where the parent isn’t arsed. I see children every week where the parenting is shocking, eg a 3 year old who spends literally all day in a high chair in front of the TV, or a parent who let their 11 year old, toilet trained child poo in a nappy at the computer and changed him, while he sat there, because she didn’t want to place any restrictions on screen time. But I also see incredible parents - I remember one mum who seemed almost embarrassed that she had made this incredible scrap book filled with car logos (her child’s special interest) that also sneaked in some letters/numbers/opposites etc. I thought it was incredible and told her so.

If you have a class of 30, if you have 2-3 with additional needs whose parent are totally on board, they’d have always been the ones with SEN in the class. But you now add in the children with poor speech due to lcokdown, the children that only access iPads, the children who are screamed at and then pnisjed for screaming when they’re distressed, when it’s the only model they have, the children who’s parents do nothing with them or don’t want to impose any boundaries, and that’s how you get the increase. Suddenly the 2-3 goes up to 10, and in that group you have incredible parents and poor ones.

doadeer · 25/02/2023 11:28

My son is non verbal autistic, he struggles with all aspects of day to day life. We are having to fight for him to have a specialist school place as the LA want him in mainstream. This would be a terrible decision. So if there are other families like mine... Children who need specialist support are being forced into mainstream.

imsoannoyed · 25/02/2023 11:30

@Myjobisanightmare but marrying within families has been going on for decades surely?

I'm not saying it doesn't lead to SEN or other genetic conditions in children - it most certainly does.

But is it responsible for the increase?

Youdoyoubabe · 25/02/2023 11:31

I blame the parents.
……and the hormones in the chicken
…….and the phones
…….the parents on the phones
…….and Teletubbies.

daffodilday · 25/02/2023 11:31

Moonicorn · 25/02/2023 09:06

The bar has massively lowered as to what SEN is.

Try get an EHCP from your LA and then try repeating that without laughing at yourself.

EmmaDilemma5 · 25/02/2023 11:31

Covid has resulted in far less diagnosis and treatment being offered, so I guess early intervention doesn't really exist now. Hence, ongoing needs where perhaps otherwise they'd be less.

That's our experience anyway. Been on the waiting list for SALT for 3 years now.

kindercup · 25/02/2023 11:31

imsoannoyed · 25/02/2023 11:30

@Myjobisanightmare but marrying within families has been going on for decades surely?

I'm not saying it doesn't lead to SEN or other genetic conditions in children - it most certainly does.

But is it responsible for the increase?

People simply were not recognised or acknowledged many years ago as needing help. The increase may be smaller then we think.

I needed help. I got punishment.

AliceinSlumberland · 25/02/2023 11:31

Youainttheonlyone · 25/02/2023 11:20

I think “parenting” Is definitely contributing to some of those lower level sens. And I think the way the world is in terms of what you described in lack of provision is exacerbating this in terms of you just don’t have the resources to “school” this out of children.

but for sure the higher level “born with” issues (sorry for my crass wording) - this is a whole new ballgame and has to be something environmental. would you say you are seeing an uplift in numbers of these kids too? X

Yes absolutely, to an insane degree, and all my colleagues agree. There is a huge increase in children with very obvious, very complex needs, who sail through the ehcp process at 3 years old because it’s so obvious and no one can argue otherwise. We have slightly more specialist school places in the past but the demand on these places is 10x more, and all are children who genuinely need these spaces. If schools hunk they have high numbers now, brace themselves because I’ve never seen anything like the reception/nursery cohort that’s coming up. It must be something environmental, perhaps in pregnancy. But research into this area is super controversial - a bit study looking at environment factors was paused recently due to a massive outcry on Twitter that it was disabilist.

AliceinSlumberland · 25/02/2023 11:33

doadeer · 25/02/2023 11:28

My son is non verbal autistic, he struggles with all aspects of day to day life. We are having to fight for him to have a specialist school place as the LA want him in mainstream. This would be a terrible decision. So if there are other families like mine... Children who need specialist support are being forced into mainstream.

I so, so feel for you and I’m seeing this more and more. The LA I work for has absolutely no socialist places left to give and has requested to extend existing sites but the government mostly says no. We absolutely need a national specialist school provision building programme.

KillingLoneliness · 25/02/2023 11:35

doadeer · 25/02/2023 11:28

My son is non verbal autistic, he struggles with all aspects of day to day life. We are having to fight for him to have a specialist school place as the LA want him in mainstream. This would be a terrible decision. So if there are other families like mine... Children who need specialist support are being forced into mainstream.

This is very important point as well! There’s so many children who need a place in a specialist school but they aren’t able to get one so they have to go into mainstream, surely that also part of the increase? Also if the school is known for providing excellent support for those with SEN then more parents will be applying for a place.

pennylanestrawberries · 25/02/2023 11:38

daffodilday · 25/02/2023 11:31

Try get an EHCP from your LA and then try repeating that without laughing at yourself.

But not all children who are thought to have SEN have an EHCP? The OP even said that only 4 of the children in her class with additional needs have an EHCP currently.

spanieleyes · 25/02/2023 11:39

We have just had a local authority questionnaire round basically asking how we can ensure we are able to take and retain more children in mainstream school rather than specialist provision" without any change in resource levels" . We have said we can't. We have children where it has been agreed they need specialist provision but have been waiting well over 12 months. We also have many children who NEED specialist provision but the LA won't agree.
The number of children with additional needs, not just ASD/ADHD but, has already been said, SALT, SEMH, or just " low ability" is escalating.

JustKeepBuilding · 25/02/2023 11:41

pennylanestrawberries · 25/02/2023 11:38

But not all children who are thought to have SEN have an EHCP? The OP even said that only 4 of the children in her class with additional needs have an EHCP currently.

Not all DC with SEN have or need an EHCP, but the definition of SEN still hasn’t been lowered. It is defined in law and has been the same since the CAFA 2014 was introduced. The previous legislation had the same definition.

Moonicorn · 25/02/2023 11:41

a parent who let their 11 year old, toilet trained child poo in a nappy at the computer and changed him, while he sat there, because she didn’t want to place any restrictions on screen time

Shocking.

AliceinSlumberland · 25/02/2023 11:43

KillingLoneliness · 25/02/2023 11:35

This is very important point as well! There’s so many children who need a place in a specialist school but they aren’t able to get one so they have to go into mainstream, surely that also part of the increase? Also if the school is known for providing excellent support for those with SEN then more parents will be applying for a place.

I’m not sure how many people are aware that LAs are not allowed to build new schools. New schools can only be established as free schools or by academies, not LA maintained. The LA also has to request funding to expand existing sites and mostly, the government says no.

inadarkdarkhouseinadarkdarkstreet · 25/02/2023 11:43

I went to a state primary decades ago, before National Curriculum was introduced that was considered one of the best in the city. It was like kindergarten throughout compared to my kids primary school today. They are learning maths, science and history that I didn't learn till secondary, and they learn grammar I was never taught at all. I guess it could explain why some kids need extra support today than back then? But in the past many kids left education with big skills gaps/no qualifications so I'm not saying that was better! Also according to studies a significant chunk of language delayed kids catch up by five and some kids, particularly some boys don't fully get toilet training whatever you try till 4/5. Forty years ago kids with those issues would be school ready as year one entry at 5+ was standard. Today similar kids would need some extra support in Reception. I guess younger school entry is also why phonics is so heavily pushed. By 5+ a lot more kids would have developed sight reading ability than at 4 +.

TheDogthatDug · 25/02/2023 11:44

Re the delayed speech thing. Do you think that that could be related to children using tablets etc more and not interacting verbally as much as we used to?

Sherrystrull · 25/02/2023 11:44

spanieleyes · 25/02/2023 11:39

We have just had a local authority questionnaire round basically asking how we can ensure we are able to take and retain more children in mainstream school rather than specialist provision" without any change in resource levels" . We have said we can't. We have children where it has been agreed they need specialist provision but have been waiting well over 12 months. We also have many children who NEED specialist provision but the LA won't agree.
The number of children with additional needs, not just ASD/ADHD but, has already been said, SALT, SEMH, or just " low ability" is escalating.

This is shocking but not surprising. Our staff are stretched so so thin trying to support all the children who need it. I've never known it so bad before. If any staff member is away the whole system crumbles.

RudsyFarmer · 25/02/2023 11:46

I think it’s lots of different things;
Parents having their children older and older meaning many more children affected with ASD
Both parents now out of the house as standard meaning less opportunity for enrichment and individual raising of children.
Babysitting with screens feeds into the above
More awareness and lead into support. My child was being signposted towards a diagnosis at 2. I was extremely surprised and I’m convinced that wouldn’t have happened when I was two.
Parents pushing more for a diagnosis/Individual Education Plan. I think with the internet more parents have the knowledge to push for more help for their children
Covid lockdowns. Complete disaster for her children during this time. Everyone seems to have acknowledged that now and the teachers are having to pay for the decisions made my those in power.

pennylanestrawberries · 25/02/2023 11:47

JustKeepBuilding · 25/02/2023 11:41

Not all DC with SEN have or need an EHCP, but the definition of SEN still hasn’t been lowered. It is defined in law and has been the same since the CAFA 2014 was introduced. The previous legislation had the same definition.

But diagnosis is far more complex than that, you don’t just read the definition and decide who does and doesn’t have SEN. If it were that simple then there would be nobody fighting their LA for an EHCP because it would be absolutely clear cut who does and doesn’t have SEN.

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