To embrace my emotional detachment?

[herewegoroundthebastardbush]

DP and I are a bad fit. But we have two young kids, work reasonably effectively as a parenting/childcare/household management team, no overriding reason to end things - would not make life overall 'better' for my kids, would improve some things for them but make others worse, so no clear indications to jump as I am not one of those self-indulgent people who believes happy mum automatically equals happy kids. Just to forestall all the people telling me to LTB.

I have spent a number of years trying to fix what is wrong with our relationship - initiating discussions, suggesting solutions, trying to practice gratitude and patience and ignore the things that wind me up, being assertive, bending over backwards to make him happy, blah blah blah. All with pretty much no emotional input from him, he just carries on doing what he does, honestly believes he should just be allowed to behave however he feels without any consideration for how it impacts on me. We go through good and bad patches, largely dictated by his moods.

This last couple of weeks has been a bad patch - he's stressed at work, there's a few issues with the house and we have a toddler so of course that's relentless. He got a bit ill as well. I did everything I could to try and take load off him, be sympathetic etc, but he still talks to me like shit (he says he's just annoyed, not annoyed AT me, but I don't care I don't like being constantly spoken to in an angry sulky way when I'm just trying to help). We then had a discussion where I just tried to get him to acknowledge I wasn't being unreasonable to expect to be spoken to in a nice way, and he just flatly wouldn't say it. Just wouldn't answer, like a sulky teen.

Since then I've more or less left him to it - we do our usual tag teaming of kids and chores, but in our free time after they're in I've been avoiding him, getting on with my own thing, reading a book etc. Normally when we've had a spat I'd be taking a deep breath and 'making up' somehow, I feel really uncomfortable with a bad atmosphere and will usually roll over so we can move on. And actually I have a couple of times, when he's come to find me, initiated friendly discussions but at some point he'll start being miserable or grouchy again and I've just switched off.

I feel this total disconnect - like if I never spoke to him about anything consequential again I'd be totally fine with that, like I don't want to be near him or make up with him at all, I just want to be left alone. I'm never usually like this, I worry about him/us and feel rubbish unless we have 'sorted things out' or moved on somehow. But It's been years; nothing ever really changes; he doesn't think there's anything about him that should change; and I've done everything I can and more. I've had enough.

What does this feeling portend, wise Mumsnetters? Have I checked out? Is this the end? Or can I just plough along like this and in the absence of me capitulating and appeasing, will he finally actually take some responsibility for trying to nurture our relationship? It's so weird to know he's probably not happy right now and feel absolutely no inclination to do anything about that whatsoever.

Well your experience has taught you that investing effort into improving things is a waste of time so it is understandable you have reached this point.
It's a long old life to share a house with someone inconsiderate, selfish and rude though, I wouldn't feel relaxed in my own home.
If things would be, on balance, a mix of better and worse if you split for the kids, I'd split in your situation as you'll be happier being in your own space. You can still co-parent and the kids won't have this relationship as the template example in their mind for their future, which I actually think is a big reason to go.

He makes you unhappy and doesn't care.

Why do you want to stay in a relationship like that?

Yes, you’ve checked out.

why bother staying? It’ll only continue to decline from this point!

You've unknowingly adopted a 'grey rock' technique in response to some narcisstic-like behaviours....no empathy, stonewalling you, gaslighting, twisting things, accepting no responsibility etc. Its probably the beginning of the end for you.

Being in a loveless relationship where you speak to each other like shit and neither of you models love or care or respect or partnership is setting your DC up for going into adulthood with no template for what a loving and healthy relationship looks like. They’ll be picking up on it, even if you think you do a good job of hiding it, and as they get older this will be even more the case; and the tension between you will cause them anxiety and worry about their own security and the security of their home life. Happy parents = happy kids really is true at this level. Even if you don’t think it’s worth ending things for you, think about doing it for them - your own happiness will follow.

My DH suffers with bipolar and severe depression and I find I go through phases of checking out. It's a protective thing, I need to keep some energy back for me and I don't always have enough to share. I have accepted I can't fix him. He is genuinely better since being medicated and doesn't tend to shout or say anything nasty, to me or the DCs, he just mopes about and leaves me to pick up all the work.

In our case, it goes through phases and we tend to reconnect again after a while. I don't want to split up, he isn't well so in our case it is different to yours but I do feel that sometimes my brain just tells me to take a break so I step back without feeling guilty. It cuts out the drama and wasted energy of having rows about things that won't change!

My experience is that you can carry on like this as long as you choose. Viewed through a lens of you deciding how much to put into a relationship as an ongoing circumstance (rather than a lens of the end goal being wedded bliss and you doing everything you can to get there), it's actually quite stable and undemanding.

Different details but after not being able to fix the issues no matter how much I tried and wondering whather to end my marriage for years, I ended up asking myself 'what would I do if I was single?' and doing that anyway, a lot of the time. It's allowed me to keep the bits that are worth keeping - family home, companionship, childcare cover, some help with life admin and house maintenance. I've slept in the spare room for 5 years and have (almost) stopped being frustrated about the lack of joint commitment to things, two incomes, shared goals. It's better for me to have found this kind of stability while the kids are small. Absolutely know it wouldn't work for everyone.

I do get that argument, really I do. But he will go for 50:50 and he will get it (and should) as he's a very involved dad, part time like me to have a day off with the little one, shared pick ups and drop offs, fully engaged with school/clubs/care etc. I'd lose my kids half the week, and so would he. And they'd lose us. And, to be honest, I don't like the idea of them having to spend so much time around his grumpy arse without anyone to mediate it. And of course there's money, two households would mean lower standard of living and less extras for them growing up. I know some would say having a harmonious home for half the time somehow makes up for all that but as someone who experienced divorce, stepfamily etc etc, I am aware that harmony is far from guaranteed in this set-up, especially when money is short.

I do understand this POV but I also think it is a bit idealistic as it assumes that once separated, happiness will inevitably be the outcome - whereas given that he is who he is, and they will still spend significant amounts of time in his care, without me there to mediate, also less money for both households meaning more stress on all sides, also the potential he enters into another relationship bringing a stepmum and potential step/half siblings into their lives with all the emotinal hardship and competition for resources and attention that could bring, no expectation he'd be nicer to her than he is to me so still seeing the poor relationship modelling, not a cat's chance in hell I'd ever get into a relationship with any man again so no modelling of any kind there...

It's easy to imagine the post-separation life as easy and harmonious if you haven't lived it as a child; I have and it sucked enormously. Obviously I can't say if it would have sucked more if my parents had stayed together (quite possibly); but having gone on to live through my dad and stepmum's dysfunctional relationship, I'd hazard a guess I've seen both sides and neither is ideal.

Obvious answer to give my kids their best chance of a straightforward, prosperous childhood.

This is definitely it, I know engaging will be futile in the long run and just invite more conflict/feeling overlooked and stepped on, so I'm just not going to do it, I don't have the 'spoons' (hate that expression but it sums it up!). Possibly I will have some more soon and be able to be magnanimous again, find a way to love him for his good points and reconnect. But right now it's just a big hard inward NOPE when I even think about it. It does feel protective.

I'm sorry you have such a tough time with your DH, and I admire you being able to see his struggles and have patience with them. Mental health troubles are awful for the sufferer, but bloody grim for their nearest and dearest as well!

You sound my mum dealing with my stepdad.

It’s still incredibly upsetting for me to deal with and I’m 54 and have had nearly 50 years of practice.

@herewegoroundthebastardbush

Yeah I don't think that will be the outcome.

It's unlikely your oh will tolerate your detachment.

So living together as room mates happily Co parenting might be what you see as a tolerable compromise but it's more likely he will escalate his behaviour when he's not getting any attention

None if your options will result in a straight forward childhood for the kids unfortunately so Id always go for the one that had the most chance of happiness for me and the kids

But how will they be happy dealing with his 'escalating behaviour' all by themselves 1 week out of every fortnight? How will I be happy not seeing them 1 week out of every fortnight? How will any of us be happy with less space, less money, less time together?

I mean separating is surely the ultimate detachment, so it's easy to assume that if he doesn't like it within the relationship he'd like it still less if the relationship ends.

If it were the case he'd be an EOW dad I would definitely put it forward as a solution. But there is no way on earth that would happen.

Huh?

They wouldn't have to put up with any of it if you didn't live together

Honestly, saying you can't leave because your oh will treat your kids like shit if he has them alone should be the wake up call you need

Sorry that should say but you can mediate them being treated like shit if you still live together should be the wake up call you need

How long you live like this is up to you. I can certainly see your POV for staying for practical reasons.

All I would say is it's not unlikely that he's feeling similar. He could well be preparing to jump. Don't be taken by surprise by that. You say DP so assume you're not married. Make sure that you're on important documents like the house feeds etc. Have your finances separate etc.

Basically be ready in case he makes this decision for you.

This is how my divorce started.

Over time the piss poor behaviour escalated and the incidents of calm got shorter.

I had same concerns as you about splitting, especially as mine was incredibly stressed and prone to taking it out on us.

It’s only recent so I can’t say how it’ll pan out, but he’s much less stressed now he’s only a part time dad, and as much as that makes me angry it does mean I don’t worry about letting him have access.

For you OP I think it’s perhaps another nail in the coffin. Things either get better or they get worse.

He doesn't 'treat them like shit', he doesn't really 'treat me like shit'... he's just incredibly stressy and grumpy and perennially dissatisfied. I hate him getting that way and have asked him to keep a lid on it, he claims that is me asking him to suppress his feelings and he should be allowed to behave that way if he's feeling that way. It's a difference of view rather than abuse, but it's bloody draining to live around. None of which will change if we break up, it just means they'll be exposed to it 50% of the time instead of me, and without me being there to lighten the mood/take them away from him when he's being dismal. Him being grumpy will not be grounds for me to have the majority custody. He's a capable parent, he's just also a grumpy stresshead. Try explaining to CAFCASS that that's not the best environment for kids and see how far you get.

I would be astonished if he did but not upset as I would definitely see his point of view. Obviously I would be sad for the kids for the reasons I've given but I can't control what he chooses to do and at least I wouldn't feel responsible. Also if he was the one to make the jump I think we'd stand a much better chance of co-parenting civilly and well, as he wouldn't be resentful of me for leaving him.

And yes, practically I'm covered in that eventuality - 50/50 on the mortgage, savings in shared accts etc. Although I wouldn't expect foul play on his part as he's not a cruel or vindictive person, and he'd want what's best for the kids. Still, people can always surprise you!

Can I ask what eventually made your mind up to leave? I mean none of the things that I'm worried about really change until the kids are early teens and can make their own decisions... what tipped the balance for you?

I'm not sure what you want people to say?

Id rather my kids had at least some time away from a dad who cared more about himself than them and me.

Id rather show them you don't have to put up with poor treatment.

But if you think staying is better then stay.

But stop pandering to his nonsense. It's not your job to fix his bad moods