To think it is possible to separate the artist from the human being.

[SleepDreamThinkHuge]

Take R Kelly and Chris Brown. Both have done very bad crimes as human beings for different reasons. I believe we should be able to separate the artist from the human being. There is no denying that both these guys had talent. A lot of people on here know their songs/heard them before e.g. I believe I can Fly, Worlds Greatest, Forever, Freaky Friday etc..

It seems though if someone says comments like R Kelly and Chris Brown made good songs/had talent you get ridiculed. "How dare you say that they are bad people so their songs can never be good"

Just because a person did terrible things can we not separate their talent from how they are as human beings. I mean recently you probably heard on the news of some Roald Dahl books being changed even though he was anti semitic no one can deny his books were good they sold more than 250 million copies worldwide. And we all know them e.g. Matilda, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

Ugh I struggle with this one. I don't like any of the artists you've named but I'm a massive fan of a few Roman Polanski films.

Of course you can separate them! Carravaggio was a murderer, but his paintings are wonderful, and still on display all over the world.

I don't know. I struggle a bit. I used to be a massive Marion Zimmer Bradley fan until I found out about all the awful child abuse stuff and I have to admit I've not been able to read her books since.

I think it's a very personal choice tho, and I'd not judge anyone who didn't have that response.

I think Chris brown and R Kelly are worlds apart. R Kelly’s crimes are unforgivable and I cringe when I hear this songs on ITunes and turn them off (duets with other artists.

Chris Brown has been forgiven by Rihanna and I believe he is reformed (without having a clue about the actual truth of course).

I think people should not separate the art from the artist when they have done awful crimes like rape or paedophilia, they don’t deserve the glory or attention or fan base anymore.

As much as I don't want to, put Ignition (Remix) on and I'm going to sing along to it.

It depends, singers I generally can’t as I can obviously hear that person, physical artwork I find easier.

I personally wouldn't compare CB to RK, but agree they have both done bad things.

When it comes to RK I wouldn't want to contribute towards a known child abuser earning any money via clicks/steaming/ watching films that feature his music etc.

It totally depends on the seriousness of what they've done. Absolute no for me:
Jimmy Savile
Ian Watkins
Marilyn Mansun man
R Kelly
Rolf Harris
That horrible creep who was in Dr Who.

There will be more. Those are the ones that I immediately think of.

Chris Brown is also a raging colourist so for that alone he can stay off the radio!
I think however it depends where you draw the line. RK's actions can never be forgiven.

I can appreciate their 'art' but I draw the line of funding them. So I like some Kanye West songs but I won't stream his music. He won't receive royalties from me as he is an antisemite.

I think about this quite a lot as I loved Marilyn Manson in my youth and he’s still on a lot of my playlists but while I started off being able to separate art and artist, the more I listened the less I wanted to hear it & not just skip it.

If I think about the likes of Lost Prophets who had a song I absolutely loved, I cannot bear to hear any of their tunes because of what it makes me think of (singer is a paedophile for those who don’t know) and I do genuinely start to feel sick.

Then I think of Michael Jackson and how, despite quite believable allegations, he’s still played on the radio and I reminisce fondly hearing his tunes. Hearing them doesn’t take me to his alleged abuse whereas the other ls do. It’s a weird hypocrisy

I saw an interesting article on this issue but in relation to Hitler. The question was “would you hang a Hitler”? (Painting that is).
I’m curious because I love painting and don’t like Hitler but it does beg the question- aside from just music what other art would you avoid?
Its obviously easy with Hitler’s art but in philosophy most courses eventually lead to Martin Heidegger - a phenomenal mind but a Nazi…
Personally, I can’t stomach listening to Arcade Fire any more, loved them.
I find people who admire Michael Jackson frightening (but that’s because I believe the victims).
I couldn’t admire Oscar Pistorius for his achievements.
I bloody hate R Kelley anyway musically so that’s easy.
But if an artist I really loved.. I think I’d feel sickened and go off it.

R Dahl also beat his wife btw

Charles Dickens and Shakespeare drew anti-semitic characters, with Fagin emerging from the smoke with horns and a pitchfork in hand. Not everybody is well read and they might use outdated language, particularly older generations. It’s just how it is. Lack of education unfortunately.

Roald Dahl used terminology of his experiences and era - he lived in Africa, would have had servants etc. Accounts of the Oompa Loompas were revised. He did amazing things too like invent a machine that saved many children’s lives. I don’t see that he was hateful. And not all of his books and stories are racist. Many of them are utterly faultless frankly.

I would happily throw all Eric Gill"s works on a giant bonfire. They are as vile as he was. Fwiw, he raped his daughters

I’m a huge Woody Allen film fan and I struggle with this. I sometimes still watch his films but I’m almost embarrassed about it and it does taint the experience for me.

It’s such a tough one. With some artists (Lost prophets, Gary Glitter etc) it’s impossible for me to separate them from the music as I immediately think about their crimes and wouldn’t enjoy the music anyway. With a film director I could probably separate the two as I’m not seeing or hearing them. Michael Jackson is a hard one for me as I love ‘Man in the mirror’ but last time I heard it I skipped it as I found it uncomfortable.

R Kelly came on my ancient iTunes playlist the other day and I was thinking about this as I was driving along.

I'm a 90s child and his R in R&B album is unbelievable, what a talent.

Abomination of a human being though.

I feel sorry for the artists he has collaborated with though, especially Celine and Lady Gaga - they seem to be thoroughly decent, lovely women.

Same Girl with Usher was fantastic.

It's very sad.

Totally echo Lost Prophets as above.

MJ wasn't actually convicted so I'll happily listen/watch him.

Yes I can never listen to Lostprophets now and Last Summer used to be one of my favourite songs. I went to see them when I was about 12 and actually met Ian Watkins on two occasions. It all makes me feel sick now.

Eric Gill was raped his own daughters and wrote about, so he confesses to it. His sculptures are still on display. In cathedrals and outside the BBC.

Comparing people from history through a modern lens is not something I subscribe to.

But by today’s standards if they’re evil I won’t be listening, can’t stand R Kelly, Chris Brown and I can’t go anywhere near Lost Prophet’s music.
Art is great, but morals are more important to me. I’m annoyingly principled.

@Artisticpaint that last comment wasn’t aimed at you! He’s clearly awful.

What's a colourist? I'm assuming he isn't an expert in colouring hair?

GTFO with this antisemitic bullshit. This is what Dahl said:

His statements in an interview with the British magazine New Statesman. “There is a trait in the Jewish character that does provoke animosity, maybe it’s a kind of lack of generosity towards non-Jews,” he said. “I mean, there’s always a reason why anti-anything crops up anywhere; even a stinker like Hitler didn’t just pick on them for no reason.”

As for whether you can separate art and artist personally I think yes you can. I loved Dahl’s books as a kid despite being Jewish and I look forward to reading them with my DC. But I think it’s a very personal line for everyone and there’s no point in dictating that line for other ppl. I personally can’t stand Mel Gibson (antisemite and domestic abuser) but I accept other people still want to watch his movies.