To think it's weird to allow babies in arms in cabs

[anonacfr]

Typical celeb clickbait article this morning online.
Chloe Madeley apparently got abuse for posting a picture of her, her partner and their young baby in a black cab.
They're both wearing a seatbelt but he's holding the baby- no baby carrier or restraints.
She was lashing out at people criticising her by telling them it is a perfectly legal thing to do.

Isn't that mega dangerous though? Looking back we always brought our carriers in cabs, or at least (in black cabs) strapped the babies in their buggy and secured said buggy so it couldn't really move.
In these days of health and safety I am just surprised.

Am I a hindsight PFB?

Cars are a dangerous means of transport but yet people seem happy to transport their children in them on a daily basis. As a non-driver without a car seat I've travelled with a baby in a taxi twice. I'd say the risk to my baby is less.

It is weird. The reality is though, until technology moves on to a point where we can invent a really safe car seat that folds down small or is inflatable, you have 3 choices:

• have a car seat that goes on a buggy, but then your whole day is limited to keeping the child in the buggy for only as long as they are allowed in car seat. Also only works when the child is little enough for a group one seat. (I have seen no group 2,2/3 or 3 car seats that go on buggies, so this is largely irrelevant once the child is too big for a group 1 or 1/2 seat.)
• Do your entire journey by bus, but this doesn't always get you near enough to your destination at the times you want.
• Use taxi or friends cars and limit walking or bussing to a few minutes so the child can definately walk and you can definately carry the car seat. (Realistically pushing a buggy while carrying a toddler's car seat is hard/impossible. Also taxis are expensive and friends might not be doing all your journeys.)

When my child moved out of his tiny baby seat, I could barely carry his seat, much less him and his seat, so I could only take the car seat when we were doing a full journey both ways in the same car, or doing the full journey both ways in 2 different cars, but were in one place in the middle where I could store the seat. Otherwise, it was either a taxi without a seat or public transport.

Are taxis safer than buses because they don't even have seatbelts for the adults?

Taxis have seatbelts, though?

(yes, I know it's an ancient thread, but it's not so old that black cabs didn't have seatbelts - and the Law has required passengers to use them for well over 20 years).

Makes not difference to lo I guess, which is safer, being held or sat in a pushchair?

If there it's a Hackney and space for the pushchair I'd think they'd be safer strapped into the pushchair. It would take some of the impact.
Because there is always a risk that the person holding them would let them go.

The law makes exceptions for taxis because they don't want to make life impossible for young families, or make people criminals when it's just not always practical to take car seats.

My first taxi journey without a car seat was with a 5 week old baby, 2 miles to the nearest train station. Two trains later and DH would meet us at the other end with the car and carseat. He'd travelled a couple of days before with our luggage so all I needed was me, baby, pram, stuff for the 3hr journey. I couldn't have coped trying to carry a carseat too.
I did that journey quite a few times during my maternity leave as DH was working away.
Yes I probably didn't need to travel but it was nice not to be apart most of the week. And I think my own MH would really have suffered if I hadn't travelled.

People who suggest carrying carseats really need to actually try carrying carseats while pushing a pram, dealing with a baby and a toddler and a bunch of luggage 🧳

Isn't this situation exactly what travel systems were invented for though?

Not sure what happens once lo gets too big for carry car seat though

@Makingchocolatecake
No it's not, what travel systems were invented for. But someone asked the question if it was an option to keep then in the buggy my guess is they'd be safer in a buggy.

Carrying carseats is awkward and LOs aren't meant to spend too long in car seats hence it's just not always practical to take carseats with you. Hence the exception for taxis. You do it the old fashioned way, hold them tight. Not ideal but when did you last hear of a taxi being in a fatal collision?

I understand what you're saying, but it's an accessibility thing. Of itvwas that strict, then people who sometimes really need it couldn't use it

I've done it with my toddler a handful of times when picking him up from nursery (maybe twice). When we got a taxi to the airport (hour drive) I made sure we had the car seat but I have a friend with a child the same age who held their two children (2 and under 1) for a similar journey and I was a bit horrified.

All I meant was it would have made it so they didn't have to worry about not being able to carry one!

@Makingchocolatecake
Do you mean, people should use travel systems that take infant carseats, ie carseat on the pram chassis

Yes I suppose yes that's why infant carseats can go on pram chassis.
It was really popular around year 2000 to have babies in carseats for a long time.
By 2010 there was a realisation this wasn't good for babies spines and guidelines had been issued that babies shouldn't be in carseats for more than 60mins at a time. Newborns should be layed flat.

By 2020 the guidelines had been reduced to 20min for newborns, due to the risk of cotdeath and suffocating in carseats

Which then means parents are reluctant to have babies in carseats on prams all day. Sometimes it's just not possible to carry a carseat and push a pram, or have baby in a sling.

This isn't the first 'why are taxis allowed' thread. We all know it is not ideal to have babies and toddlers in taxis unsecured but reality is taking a carseat just isn't always possible.
Lots of MNers seem to think mum's with babies should be some sort of donkey and carry a carseat regardless of the weight or the practicality factor of how you carry it while pushing a baby in a pram and dealing with your luggage for a week.
If your getting a taxi to and from a friend's house yes I'd use a carseat but if I was using a taxi to get to a train station then 2 trains before getting to my destination maybe not.
Same with someone being out n About missing the bus and then deciding stuff it let's get a taxi home it would be rotten to remove that option just because they don't have a carseat with them.

Yeah just meant could have used a car seat on chassis instead of pram for 2 mile taxi journey, then taken baby out on long train since train crashes are very rare. We had a lie flat pushchair that the car seat clipped onto which was really good because we always had the option of both although she rarely went in car seat on it. Those little car seats on wheels really bother me, they seem bad for everyone's spines since they are so short!

Never heard the 20 minute rule, I thought it was 2h, we had lo in 22, but guess its changed.

So yeah could have used the carseat for the 2 mile taxi journey but I then couldn't carry the lie flat seat for the pram so I'd be stuck with LO in just the carseat for the rest of the week.

It's a no win situation. We don't live in an ideal world sometimes you just have to weigh up the risks and do what you can in the situation you are in.
The taxi exception is there because the government know it's not always possible to carry carseats.
Sometimes people might go out without intending to get a taxi home, change of weather, tiredness, miss the bus. Most taxi rides are short and on 30mph roads the chances of being in a serious accident are probably fairly low.

I'd be surprised they'd relaxed the guidelines to 2hrs, in 2010 I'm sure it was 1hr and more recently it was dropped to 20min for newborns which gives parents a headache getting home from hospitals. That is UK other countries might have different guidelines.

Our local cab company have several cars with seats in their boots. You just need to mention that you need one when you book.
No way on earth would I have taken our kids/will I take our grandchild in a car without a suitable child seat.

I've looked up the guidelines it's 30min for newborns 2 hrs for older babies but still not ideal.
I'm was so sure they said an hour at one point.

I find it amusing how many people express horror at carrying a baby in a taxi (professional driver) without a carrier yet are happy to travel multiple journeys a week with babies in cars. I travel with my baby maybe twice a year in a taxi without a carrier. I'm pretty sure that my baby is at less risk than someone travelling with a baby (albeit in a carrier) in a car on a regular basis.