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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think it's weird to allow babies in arms in cabs

117 replies

anonacfr · 21/02/2023 12:50

Typical celeb clickbait article this morning online.
Chloe Madeley apparently got abuse for posting a picture of her, her partner and their young baby in a black cab.
They're both wearing a seatbelt but he's holding the baby- no baby carrier or restraints.
She was lashing out at people criticising her by telling them it is a perfectly legal thing to do.

Isn't that mega dangerous though? Looking back we always brought our carriers in cabs, or at least (in black cabs) strapped the babies in their buggy and secured said buggy so it couldn't really move.
In these days of health and safety I am just surprised.

Am I a hindsight PFB?

OP posts:
SaltyGod · 21/02/2023 14:17

There are many instances when babies travel at high speeds without car seats:

  • trains (in arms or in buggy)
  • buses as above
  • planes (lap belt or in arms)

It's not just cabs and I've personally had babies in arms in all of the above situations including taxis. I'd try to book a black cab but sometimes it was a minicab as that was the only option at the time.

The risk seems very small indeed.

FlounderingFruitcake · 21/02/2023 14:17

On the subject of lap babies on planes, they are not safe in the event of a crash, it’s just that plane crashes are extremely rare. The FAA in the US came very close to banning them but concluded that if forced to buy an extra seat more families would choose to drive and because plane travel is so much safer than road travel, a ban would inadvertently cause an increase in infant deaths.

As for the travel system dilemma you can get seats that go flat now. The Cybex Cloud Z is amazing for regular taxi users since it can go flat and be seatbelt installed. That said, for central London taxis, I’m happy to keep mine buckled into the pram as I view it less like a car ride and more like a private bus!

ClaraLane · 21/02/2023 14:18

Legal and safe are two different things when it comes to car seats. It’s legal to forward-face a child from 9KG according to one car seat law however it definitely isn’t safe due to the risk of internal decapitation and other life-threatening injuries. So yes in this case it was legal but not necessarily safe. Although I’d argue it was safer to do this than it is to forward face a child once they hit 9KG as like PPs have said they’re not going to be getting up to particularly high speeds.

ImustLearn2Cook · 21/02/2023 14:19

I’d say it is a similar risk to catching a bus and holding baby on your lap.

Also, as previously mentioned car seats are heavy, bulky and not easy to be carrying it around all day or while you’re doing the grocery shop etc.

RichardHeed · 21/02/2023 14:20

Legal yes but legal doesn’t equal safe, half the shitty car seats on the market prove that. I cringe when I see those Disney or Spider-Man seats, they need banning.

Unless it’s a true emergency it’s a really stupid idea. Dismissing real safety concerns as anxiety is fucking stupid though, any sane person who did a second of research into this would be horrified.

gogohmm · 21/02/2023 14:21

It's only legal in a black cab with a dividing screen if you don't have a car seat with you. It's not ideal ever but you can be in situations where you need to use a car with a baby/small child and in emergency it's allowed anyway

gogohmm · 21/02/2023 14:27

Here the bus goes at 60mph on the motorway to get into the city, surely that's riskier than a 20 mph crawl through central London

AGoldenNarwhal · 21/02/2023 14:31

It would be great if there was a solution to this... maybe have a special baby seat on buses and make it possible to order "baby friendly" taxis/cabs with car seats.

Unfortunately banning this will just have two consequences... pushing parents who can afford it to drive/buy a second car and cutting off those who can't afford it from travel options. Already I've been discussing with DH whether we should get a second car... it would be easier to get the kids around, but our area is congested enough and we both object to multi-car households on environmental grounds. We need to be encouraging families to use public transport.

Sugarfree23 · 21/02/2023 14:32

Re planes - very few people are able to say 'I've been in a plane crash' a car seat is going to make very little difference!

Sometimes it's just not practical to lug a car seat.

Only once have either of my kids been on a motorway without a car seat.
Injured child, in shock, calm in my arms while a neighbour drove us to hospital. Truthfully I was scared to put him in a carseat and drive myself incase he started crying, making the injury worse, causing me stress and potentially causing a more serious accident.

AGoldenNarwhal · 21/02/2023 14:33

gogohmm · 21/02/2023 14:27

Here the bus goes at 60mph on the motorway to get into the city, surely that's riskier than a 20 mph crawl through central London

I've never had to take the bus with DC in that situation but it would make me very uneasy.

AGoldenNarwhal · 21/02/2023 14:34

RichardHeed · 21/02/2023 14:20

Legal yes but legal doesn’t equal safe, half the shitty car seats on the market prove that. I cringe when I see those Disney or Spider-Man seats, they need banning.

Unless it’s a true emergency it’s a really stupid idea. Dismissing real safety concerns as anxiety is fucking stupid though, any sane person who did a second of research into this would be horrified.

So is sitting at home never taking your DC out of their neighbourhood because you can't afford a car.

GloomyDarkness · 21/02/2023 14:44

Car seats weigh a ton. I completely disbelieve anyone who claims both to have lugged one about all day and to have had a pleasant day out with their children.

Not around all day but if you are going from home taxi then straight on train where you get met either by someone driving or extra hands - it's possible though still a pain.

IL had a friend who always berated me for saying getting to IL was hard by myself - as she did a journey same train time. She drove to station got on train and was met other end - meanwhile I had walk bus train, train change and then really long walk - but the train journey time was the same so she refused to see any difference.

I did get around with three close together in age kids and no car - taxis were rare but occasionally best option.

Sugarfree23 · 21/02/2023 14:48

@GloomyDarkness
That's making a journey not having a day out.

I'd agree that lugging a carseat on a day out say to a zoo or theme park would be a complete pain in the arse!

AGoldenNarwhal · 21/02/2023 14:55

Sugarfree23 · 21/02/2023 14:48

@GloomyDarkness
That's making a journey not having a day out.

I'd agree that lugging a carseat on a day out say to a zoo or theme park would be a complete pain in the arse!

You'd also have to weigh the risk to your younger child against that to your older children of not being able to run after/keep up with them and keep them safe at the zoo/theme park.

Lcb123 · 21/02/2023 14:57

It’s legal and I think fine for occasional times. Taxis in central London barely move. (Prob quicker to walk!). Babies aren’t in car seats on buses.

lanthanum · 21/02/2023 15:11

It's legal, but not ideal. Occasionally you find a taxi-driver who keeps a child seat in the boot, but it's rare, and of course even then it may not be the right size and you don't know its condition. We didn't drive when DD was little, and occasionally used taxis. RoSPA advised us that the safest option was a wheelchair accessible taxi, with the pushchair sideways to the direction of motion. As a toddler, we often used her reins - I'd get in and put the seatbelt on, then she'd sit on my knee and we'd pass the lead of her reins round my back.

MrNook · 21/02/2023 15:22

And what did you do with the car seat? Lug that around too? They're heavy!

No I just clipped it onto the pram

GloomyDarkness · 21/02/2023 15:25

Sugarfree23 · 21/02/2023 14:48

@GloomyDarkness
That's making a journey not having a day out.

I'd agree that lugging a carseat on a day out say to a zoo or theme park would be a complete pain in the arse!

Depends how many willing hands you meet up with I suppose.

It was suggested to us as possible way of doing it on trip back to where we once lived but in end we decided it would be too much extra carriage with baby and two toddlers and I'm glad because it did mean we were able to get about by ourselves.

My IL once insisted we leave buggy at home for one holiday as they said they'd be four adults capable of carrying youngest. We'd taken a buggy on a long day out with them and she'd only used it at very end - so wasn't completely mad idea. However it took a day before we hired a buggy and IL agreed it was a great idea as she wanted carrying all the time due to late nights as it was too much even with four of us.

daffodilday · 21/02/2023 15:27

How else are you meant to travel with a baby if you’re in London with baby in sling and then need a cab/bus ? Traffic moves at snails pace anyway so seems quite safe.

Sugarfree23 · 21/02/2023 15:31

MrNook · 21/02/2023 15:22

And what did you do with the car seat? Lug that around too? They're heavy!

No I just clipped it onto the pram

But babies aren't supposed to spend more than 2hrs in a carseat. Newborns 20mins I think is the guidance.

So how does that work for a day out?

Sugarfree23 · 21/02/2023 15:35

Even going on a train journey, taxi to local station, 5mins in taxi, change trains twice, before being met at the other end.

Sometimes you just do what you have to do.

bussteward · 21/02/2023 15:38

MrNook · 21/02/2023 13:50

A baby that small can go in one of those travel system car seats with handles so no idea why you wouldn't do that!

I don’t own one.

GloomyDarkness · 21/02/2023 15:48

Sugarfree23 · 21/02/2023 15:31

But babies aren't supposed to spend more than 2hrs in a carseat. Newborns 20mins I think is the guidance.

So how does that work for a day out?

Show quote history

he'd be in the car seat for the taxi ride and then used the sling when walking around

^^She had sling and some sort of travel system.

I've done mixes of transport - slings, buggy boards, attachable side cars, double pushchairs, backpack reins depending on situation- I had three to get about so managed as best we could.

There may well be more options out there now than we had access to - someone mentioned there's a lie flat car seat - so depending on price if I was looking now not driving - I'd see if they did a travel system.

However you can't assume everyone would have access to such equipment thus can't make laws based on everyone having this access - so there's still a need to allow more flexibility for taxis.

GingerKombucha · 21/02/2023 16:01

RichardHeed · 21/02/2023 14:20

Legal yes but legal doesn’t equal safe, half the shitty car seats on the market prove that. I cringe when I see those Disney or Spider-Man seats, they need banning.

Unless it’s a true emergency it’s a really stupid idea. Dismissing real safety concerns as anxiety is fucking stupid though, any sane person who did a second of research into this would be horrified.

Can you please point me to the research showing death rates of babies in black cabs without car seats being higher than babies in black cabs with car seats? I would be interested to see this.

Littlegoth · 21/02/2023 16:04

@Fullyhuman It’s not legal to give a lift to a friend with a babe in arms. It’s only legal in a taxi.

Children 3 and over can go in a taxi without a booster as long as they use the seatbelt. Under 3 and they travel held by a parent.