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AIBU?

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Original poster

Who is out of order here?

427 replies

fornical · 20/02/2023 20:30

I run a healthy meal delivery company. I have several delivery drivers, however, having an issue with one in particular. My delivery drivers are self employed. Deliveries happen on a Saturday.

Long story short, I've had one of my delivery drivers for over a year now. I pay her £10 per hour and 45 pence per mile. She drives from Essex to London to collect the deliveries then back to Essex to deliver them every Saturday. She arrives to collect them at 9 am.

I text her asking for the next six weeks if she could be at pick up point at 8 am rather than 9 am.

She replied - 'See to be honest, it’s unsociable hours with it being so early at the weekend and having to get Amelia out of bed etc. I’d have to put my price up to £15 per hour. Let me know if you would be happy to go ahead with that or not. If you can’t though don’t worry I understand, It just means I’ll have to be getting up at 6.30 on a Saturday and my daughter too. Just wouldn’t be worth my while for tenner an hour xx'

AIBU to think this is totally unreasonable and out of the blue? How did she jump from £10 an hour to £15 because I asked her to come in one hour earlier. Am I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
zurala · 21/02/2023 12:45

Teeturtle · 21/02/2023 09:19

I wish people would read the thread. OP isn’t paying a wage. She is saying that they are self employed, you do not pay wages to self employed. That is like me saying I pay the plumber a wage. I don’t, I pay what he tells me to pay, he sets the rate, I either agree to it or not.

I do think OP is shamefully exploiting these drivers however. Because on the one hand she seems to think they are employees, in that she thinks it is up to her to set the hours and the rate.

But on the other hand she shirks all her employer responsibilities such as paying employer NI, pension, holiday pay, sick pay, provisions of tools. Unfortunately not everybody understands the rules of employment / self employment and so this disgusting exploitation continues and she actually has the cheek to moan about it.

Show quote history

And I think in law that as the OP sets the hours, then they are not self employed, they should be PAYE.

OP you need to run your business properly and enjoy your drivers properly.

Cheesyball · 21/02/2023 12:46

Its £11.05 in London.

tattygrl · 21/02/2023 12:54

She's well within her rights as self-employed.

You're also benefiting massively from her being self employed as you don't have employer's responsibilities and don't have to pay tax and sick leave etc. etc. Her being able to set rates like this is part of the "compensation" of being self-employed, in that sense. You get the benefit of not having the responsibilities of an employer, she gets the benefit of being able to choose her rates.

tattygrl · 21/02/2023 12:56

Beware of false self employment here, OP. If you have people working for you regularly and rely on you for a majority of their income, and if you arguably have a lot of influence over their working hours and conditions, you're in a grey area. Possibly you should consider employing your drivers.

Workawayxx · 21/02/2023 13:17

YANBU to ask but she INBU to say no unless pay is £15. Getting a child out of bed an hour earlier on a Saturday IS a hassle and I would probably feel the same as she does! If £15 an hour doesn't work for you either suggest meeting in the middle at £12.50 or find someone else?

SchoolTripDrama · 21/02/2023 13:18

Sorry but I think you sound totally uncaring and an awkward & unpleasant person to work for.

You asked for opinions 🤷🏼‍♀️

Imgoingcamping · 21/02/2023 13:19

£10 an hour for a self employed person is not good. They don’t get holiday or sick pay

Imgoingcamping · 21/02/2023 13:22

You are being unreasonable to be annoyed. The money you are paying is very low (considering no entitlement to holidays, sick pay etc on their part). The situation probably only suits her for the agreed hours no wonder she wants recompense for it disrupting her routine. If you want full control then find some employees.

BelleMarionette · 21/02/2023 13:24

I think the the time change is a red herring here: she has realised that with the increased cost of living and fuel that it isn't worth her while for £10/hour, and I don't blame her. You would struggle to find anyone else willing to do this, for this price.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 21/02/2023 13:43

I also think that the time-change was pretty much the final straw and not the only reason in itself.

To have done OP such a favour for all this time by working pretty much for nothing after costs, to subsidise her business - and then to be told that she must now also miss out on an hour's sleep or family time on top of that - that really is plunging a dagger right into any remaining goodwill.

I may be mistaken, but going on OP's attitude as demonstrated on this thread, I'm guessing it wasn't even a case of asking nicely if it might be a possibility, but probably more a case of moaning that she's always 'too late' and 'must' start earlier.

sally16 · 21/02/2023 13:44

£10 and hour isn't even minimum wage.. so it's even worse for being self employed and on a Saturday.. I'd expect £15ph as a minimum and even at that.. is it worth the hassle?

sally16 · 21/02/2023 13:46

sally16 · 21/02/2023 13:44

£10 and hour isn't even minimum wage.. so it's even worse for being self employed and on a Saturday.. I'd expect £15ph as a minimum and even at that.. is it worth the hassle?

Error on min wage* still poor wage though. ESP at the weekend!

tattygrl · 21/02/2023 13:46

Basically, OP, if you want control over rates and hours, take on the responsibility of an employer.

clairelouwho · 21/02/2023 13:59

fornical · 20/02/2023 20:42

Disturb your family day? It's literally one hour earlier.

Which means she has to get her daughter up earlier. You changed the terms and she’s entitled to change her prices.

Negotiate it or don’t and find someone else who will take such little pay to do that. I wouldn’t.

clairelouwho · 21/02/2023 14:03

fornical · 20/02/2023 20:45

No she doesn't get paid for the drive from Essex to London. Just from moment she collects deliveries

And there you go. It’s a wonder she bothered with you at all.

Birnamwood · 21/02/2023 14:04

YABU

I am self employed. If I'm ill I don't get paid.

If I go on holiday, I don't get paid.

If I choose to have another child I will only get SMP

I have to pay for public liability insurance and tax/NI contributions plus all the usual expenses of running a car. Also, I have to save for the periods when I may be out of work/between contracts.

It's my choice to be SE yes, but my rate reflects all that I have to cover 🤷‍♀️

Boringcookingquestion · 21/02/2023 14:11

She’s telling you it’s not worth £10 per hour for her to come an hour earlier and telling you what price she would be willing to start work earlier for. You don’t think it’s worth paying £5 more an hour for an earlier start…

There’s no reasonable or unreasonable here. If her time isn’t worth £15 per hour to you, advertise for another driver. Or choose to keep things as they are.

lamaze1 · 21/02/2023 14:30

She isn't obliged to make the change or accommodate your request (unless there is vital info you've not mentioned).

She has offered to accommodate your request at a price. She is self employed and can request whatever rate she wants. Doesn't mean she will be paid it of course. You're free to say no and get someone else, so it's a bit much for you to be annoyed or suggest she is out of order. For that, you're the one that is being unreasonable.

Scarymary02101979 · 21/02/2023 16:25

Yes it's minimum wage for a job her job entails more than yours her job means for her job she has to pay liability insurance van insurance tax coming from London she is also paying congestion charges and ulez. She is self employed not employed she doesn't get sick pay or maternity or holiday anything else being employed gets you benefits of. As self employed she can set her wage it's up to the other person if they want to pay it. Most self employed people charge more than 10 pounds an hour cos of everything they have to cover.

MumOf2Here · 21/02/2023 21:33

an hour early makes all the difference when you have a family and small children to work around. You’re not unreasonable for asking, but neither is she. if you can’t do it just find another driver

Forgooodnesssakenow · 22/02/2023 06:15

Those saying it's reasonable not to pay her for traveling to pick up, the driver lives where she's delivering. If she lived near the op she'd need to collect, deliver then drive home. Op would have to pay her for the journey home I'm quite sure so she should have to pay all the driving for this lady

Desperatetime · 22/02/2023 07:44

If this is her only earnings surely she doesn't pay any tax or ni out of it.

Battyfumworts · 22/02/2023 09:34

Desperatetime · 22/02/2023 07:44

If this is her only earnings surely she doesn't pay any tax or ni out of it.

That’s absolutely no excuse to take advantage of someone. The law isn’t “if you earn under £x you don’t pay tax and NI so it’s ok for you to be paid less than minimum” A part time employee working 5 hours a week wouldn’t pay tax and NI but the law still says they get minimum wage and they likely don’t have the costs to cover that this self employed person does

Desperatetime · 22/02/2023 09:40

Like alot of jobs though isn't it crap pay for alot of effort.

Desperatetime · 22/02/2023 09:43

Nothing unusual about so many jobs out there with minimum wage and shit hours and having to find travel costs out of the crap wage unpaid breaks. Speaking from experience.

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