That some small businesses are failing because they don’t adapt to the needs of their customers?

[Isawyou]

I try to shop local. Fortunately I do have some great independent places nearby.

What I am finding frustrating is for example the fruit and veg shop closes at 4.30pm. They start packing up at 3.45pm and it is really difficult to buy things from there where they are stacking all the stands with the produce inside. They also look unhappy at customers coming to buy at packing up time. It is easier to go to the Tesco express that stays open until midnight.

Other shops do not open until 10am and close early. So I can’t get there before work or after work.

They complain their businesses are not doing well and people do not shop local but they are not exactly facilitating it for the customers either.

Listening to what people are saying is just one part of that. It is a case of continually adapting to see what works, not sitting on your laurels, keeping things fresh.

This defeatist attitude keeps being repeated - well I did what people said and they still did not come. It doesn't stop there. Having a business is an ongoing journey.

The reasons for moans isn't being tigh, often.
It's because all your staff's wages will go up (note even if they are above minimum wage), your inventory costs too because all producer's staff salaries went up, your everything goes up and the when you dare to add 50p on burger to cover it, you get screamed at and called greedy bastard.
Always hated April and May

The OP was on about them shutting early, I was explaining some of the reasons why and that it’s not early for them, most small business owners are exhausted. But I wouldn’t expect you to understand.

What hours do you work? I’d be very interested. Stick to Amazon love, it’s so good for the planet. Why don’t you get up earlier and go then or on your day off?
Patronising? What, for telling the truth about the hard work and difficulties small business owners deal with? So you want them to work even more hours to fit in with your lifestyle? How very selfish

Do you want them to work themselves into the ground to fit around your hours?

Yes it is ridiculous isn’t it but it is what it is. How pompous you are. So I get no VAT back like big companies as I don’t sell alcohol. I get a 6k tax bill every quarter. Please go into a good business and tell them they don’t pay VAT they will laugh their heads off. Your ignorance is outstanding. By the way my family probably pays more tax in one year than you’ve ever paid.

No because I'm not bothered about using them so doesnt make a difference to me. But to miss peak hours or busy periods and then moan about poor takings or not being busy seems a bit counterproductive. I don't think anyone should work themselves into the ground, but perhaps it's an issue if people think opening their own business and not employing many other staff will mean they have flexibility or can work set hours without consequence?

Maybe customers try to understand the pressure a small business is under to just stay afloat.

I honestly don’t mean this to sound snarky @threatmatrix but the customers understanding or lack there of is irrelevant in the context of this discussion. The only thing that matters is whether enough customers will choose to spend their money with you. That’s what it boils down to.

Small businesses need to be very realistic about how much effort their potential customers will go to in order to spend money with them. Playing on guilt or moral obligation isn’t going to get people to choose one business over another because for most of us our spending decisions are practical, not emotional.

If you’re selling something I’m willing to pay for then you’ve got me provided I can get to you and buy without having to jump through too many hoops. So if I arrive at the independent bakery at 8.10 and they’re supposed to open at 8 but there’s no sign of life, I’m not going to hang around and start work later, nor am I going to use my lunch break to go back on the off chance. I’m very unlikely to use leave in order to go to a business that only opens during my working hours. I’m not going to regularly structure my weekends so I can spend my money in one business rather than a more convenient one.

If a business can stay afloat working only the hours that suits them or only taking cash/card or not doing delivery/click & collect then that’s great. It means the business is doing well and for any potential customers who would have liked to buy but the times/limits don’t work for them, well, they have other options. Nobody’s lost out. However, if the small business isn’t taking in enough money and is doing these “use us or lose us” appeals then it’s probably an idea to consider how they can adapt to be attractive to more customers because it’s very unlikely 100/500/1000 people are going to adapt their routines to the needs of one business.

So you want them to work even more hours to fit in with your lifestyle? How very selfish

They can work whatever hours they like, but they can't then complain when people don't come - because they are seldom open when most would-be customers are not at work.

It seems a bit silly to start a business that has obvious needs that you are unable or unwilling to fulfil. Just like, if you're terrified of heights, I wouldn't expect you to start a business as a steeplejack; or if Greg Davies decided to become a jockey, I doubt many people would bet on his horse.

Yes think that if you want.

I have a business so I understand. As much as people want to shop local, most are not going to rearrange their day to visit a shop that chooses to shut early.

People aren't morally obliged to support a small business, simply because the owner has a desire to run a small business. I can't stand the moral beatings doled out about this, lecturing people about how they have "no idea what it takes to run a small business", etc. Newsflash, most adults can very well imagine what it takes and are hard working people themselves. We know it involves cleaning, stock taking, customer service, budgeting, taxes, etc. etc. Why on earth does that mean we are morally obligated to "support" small businesses by spending our money there? Running a small business isn't some sort of virtuous endeavour by default.

I shop at many places love. I am not going to come back from work early to shop at a greengrocer that wants to shut at 3.45.

Clearly you struggle with basic reading and comprehension skills if that is the conclusion you are arriving at. Maybe go and re-read my OP.

Did I say small businesses should all open longer hours to fit with my lifestyle?

Check out the stats too - 87% think my premise is not unreasonable.

Don't most people realise that starting a business is going to be exhausting before they do it? Surely that's one reason why so many people are happy to remain as employees: to trade having little flexibility and having to take orders from somebody else with knowing you can go home at the end of the day/shift and all the business-owner concerns are somebody else's problem?

Isn't this why so many corner shops with very long opening hours, 7 days, have traditionally been run by multi-generation households who also live on the premises (often also immigrants who have deliberately chosen to move to the UK with the expectation of working very hard indeed and then reaping the rewards) - so that they can open long hours without everything falling on to just one person/couple?

We are providing service, we should do our best to fit around our customer base so they can actually come and spend money. That's just logic.

A lot of the small shops here open at half ten,close at half three,close for lunch,don't open Monday or Saturday and I'd love a fiver for every time I've seen a 'Getting my hair done,back at 12.00' type sign stuck to the window.

threatmatrix

Forgive me if I'm way off the mark, but you do sound like one of these grumpy shopkeepers who sees it as a great privilege for people to be allowed to come into their shop and to spend money - and treats customers as the enemy.

Anybody in business, no matter how important, has to consider the needs and wants of their customers foremost. If Elton John decided he was now only going to perform for half-hour shows on a Tuesday morning - and he would be reading out his shopping list instead of singing his hit songs - even he would find that his 'trade' would quickly start to drop right off.

This is gold!!!!!!

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

brilliant!

Unfortunately we don't have enough doctors to cover the standard hours how will they cover weekends too?

I used to live in a seaside town. Many businesses didn’t open October-April. There was a midday swim on New Year’s Day, over 100 people watching/taking part. None of the local cafes opened, apart from the local butcher who was doing a roaring trade in hot sandwiches. Costa was rammed with people wanting hot drinks. Even if they’d just opened, say 1100-1400 they’d have been busy.

Hairdresser and beautician the same; M-F 9-5, “late night” was until 7pm. I used to have to get my hair/nails/waxing done in London near work as I couldn’t have got home in time to do it locally. It was really hard to get appointments at the weekend as many people were commuters like me.

There's a huge dissonance between social media and real life.

I run an online FB group and a real life pub meet up group which are linked (and the demographic you are selling to I expect). Those sat at home behind their keyboards are always saying they can't come because we start too early/too late, location is too far away etc etc.

We have tried moving our physical location and tweaking the start times. Do any of them then come? Of course not. All it serves is to inconvenience those who do come. I now take very little notice of the FB group's opinions on the meet up.

If a business closes for the Winter, it'll be VERY difficult and expensive to re-open for a single day. They'll have to fully re-stock and won't be able to sell anything they don't sell on that one day, so all the unsold stock goes into the skip (which they won't have because they'll not have a waste disposal contract over the Winter). The place will need a full deep clean before food is handled, which is ridiculous for just one day of trading and then will need doing again when they re-open again at Easter. It may also need decorating if it looks a bit shabby - again something they'd usually plan for the Easter opening. Not to mention going in a couple of weeks beforehand to make sure all the equipment works, i.e. ovens, fridges, counters, tills, lighting, heating, etc., to give them time to get repairs/replacements if something isn't working.

To say "just open for a day" is naive in the extreme!

When our village pie shop re-opened after 5 months of being closed by previous owners, it took the new owners 7 weeks between getting the keys and being ready to open - it was fully equipped and "ready to go" but took weeks to "prepare" in, i.e. deep cleans, decorating, repairing/replacing equipment, etc.

I don't want small business owners to work even more hours. It is entirely up to them how they work.

I run a small on line business as well as working full time. I've run it for seven years. I took the decision a few years ago to close for the Christmas period on the final day of the school term (usually 15th - 18th December). Yes, I lose some business to competitors (on line and in the high streets). That's fine. It's my business, my model and I'm happy with the balance of not having emails asking where items are on Christmas Eve (in the post, you ordered late!). But I accept that I don't make as much money as my competitors at that time. I can't have everything.

It is absolutely fine for small business owners to say 'I don't want that particular customer' - be that customer someone who wants to buy something at 8am or would like to shop on Sunday or has a particular budget. But don't do the 'use us or lose us' plea if there aren't then enough customers based on your business model! That's a model/strategy problem.

You won't find a bridal shop selling dresses at Primark prices for example. A niche product. They can't moan about lack of customers - you don't buy a wedding dress every week! If they want more customers they have to change their business model. Pleading 'use us or lose us' isn't going to make someone buy a wedding dress to keep the shop open!

And no, I'm not going to use precious annual leave to visit a shop that isn't open when I'm available unless it sells something unique. And most shops don't offer 'uniqueness' to be honest. If I'm looking for wool or jewellery, a chicken or a cup of tea and your shop isn't open, there will be one selling something similar fairly close by that is.

If gift shops, jewellers and the like want to get more customers they need to get on line as there will never be enough local people buying regularly enough to keep a shop like that going. Someone in USA isn't going to make a special trip to 'Upper Clackett' or wherever no matter how 'niche' you are but they may well buy that item on line. The internet opens the world for those type of businesses (and, as I mentioned before, for my local butcher who couriers meat if you're away on holiday!)

A tea shop may have a potential group of customers in parents, for example, who meet up regularly after drop off. But if that tea shop is not open until 10am the parents doing drop off are already tucking into their (not unique) cup of tea and slice of cake at the other tea shop down the road. And they will become regulars. We have 10 tea/coffee shops in our town and only one of them is a chain (Costas). I think I can find one that's open when my friends and I want a cuppa. And if one of those, unopen, tea shops closes for good, whose fault is that? What should I, the customer, do about it?

Business owners have to realise that they are not offering unique things most of the time and have to find something that makes them stand out if they want customers.

It is never good just to rely on one source. Sure ask people, but do your research too. What are the current trends, try to predict what your customers might want in advance, add value, what do you offer that others don’t, how do you go above and beyond etc. There is a lot more to it.

🙄

It's the people in the group who are the only ones who may come....