That some small businesses are failing because they don’t adapt to the needs of their customers?

[Isawyou]

I try to shop local. Fortunately I do have some great independent places nearby.

What I am finding frustrating is for example the fruit and veg shop closes at 4.30pm. They start packing up at 3.45pm and it is really difficult to buy things from there where they are stacking all the stands with the produce inside. They also look unhappy at customers coming to buy at packing up time. It is easier to go to the Tesco express that stays open until midnight.

Other shops do not open until 10am and close early. So I can’t get there before work or after work.

They complain their businesses are not doing well and people do not shop local but they are not exactly facilitating it for the customers either.

This happened to me last week. I needed a particular sewing/ craft item and visited all four craft/ sewing/ art shops (all independent) in my local town. None of them had the item, and in one shop the assistant cross examined me about the item and was then very dismissive - "I've never heard of one of those" / "Are you sure that's what it's called?" - despite it being made by a massive and well known brand whose other items they stocked.

Another got her phone out and googled it and then confirmed they didn't have one. There was no offer to order one in at any of the shops, so yes, I ordered one from Amazon and it came the next day.

Bezos 1 - local independent stores nil

The new fruit and veg that opened near me offer free kids for apples

I bet that's popular with the local parents.

Actually I’ve often thought that about a fair number of little shops which keep hours that just don’t seem compatible with the needs of the customer - like the sweet shop upthread that doesn’t open for school children!

As on the other current thread about the woman who delivers meals from London in Essex, I think a lot of people just never really sit down and properly look at the figures, to realise that they clearly don't add up, however much you want them to, and how much you enjoy your work and work hard at it.

Just look at Dragons' Den to see how many business owners end up working for nothing, risking their homes and ploughing all their savings into an unsustainable, unviable business - all the while clearly convinced that they have a great, profitable firm. They think that passion and a yearning are all they need for success.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll dragons den - omg, yes! I don’t know how those dragons manage to keep themselves from either laughing or shouting at some of the totally delusional ‘entrepreneurs’.
Maybe some of these small shops etc really are just financed by other family members to keep someone occupied/happy? The only other options that come to mind are 1)wasting an inheritance on a passion. 2) money laundering. 3) drug front.

Option 4 is an artificial business to prove they're "working" enough hours for their tax credits claim! All they need to do is break even, i.e. open long enough and sell enough to cover the costs (i.e. rent, utilities, stock, etc), and it opens the doors for tax credits, free prescriptions, housing allowances, etc. Just open a few hours per day and ker-ching!

Not so much these days due to new applicants being on UC instead and existing tax credit claimants being transitioned over from TC to UC, but it was endemic 10-15 years ago for people wanting to claim tax credits but not wanting to "work" in proper employment.

I'm an accountant and had lots of clients doing it, mostly market stalls (due to cheaper more flexible rents), but lots also rented run-down cheap rental shops, spent the minimum on buying stock (often second hand shops selling cheap tat, or sweet shops selling cheap non branded sweets easy to get at wholesalers, etc!). Even now, I have a bed and breakfast client who only lets out rooms a few times per year just to earn enough to pay the overheads, so always breaks even, and lives on tax credits.

Option 4 is an artificial business to prove they're "working" enough hours for their tax credits claim! All they need to do is break even, i.e. open long enough and sell enough to cover the costs (i.e. rent, utilities, stock, etc), and it opens the doors for tax credits, free prescriptions, housing allowances, etc. Just open a few hours per day and ker-ching!

Wow, that sounds like a whole load of faff. I always think when you see stories of rogue traders on consumer programmes, who use amazing skill and go to such effort and hard work to run their shoddy outfit; baffles me why they don't just put the same time and effort into running a legitimate business and never have to be looking over their shoulder for the police (or Matt Allwright)!

So the problem with running a business when you have kids or are disabled and claim tax credits is that you can't earn too much or you lose all of the benefits but still have all of the expenses and be no better off.
Earning just above the threshold is risky, it leaves you a lot more vulnerable to a situation tipping you over the edge into bankruptcy. That risk is greater for poor people who have no safety net.

Then some snarky person will deride you for running an 'artificial' business.

Don’t be daft.
this is is Hippocratic oath.
what part of this says doctors should work to their bones? The oath clearly says doctors should look after their own health and nothing about sacrificing their lives or health for selfish patients

Hippocratic Oath
Declaration of a New Doctor
As a new doctor, and a member of the medical profession:
I solemnly pledge that I will do my best to serve humanity – caring for the sick, promoting good health and alleviating pain and suffering.
I will care for all patients equally and not allow prejudice to influence my practice.
I will respect the autonomy and dignity of my patients, and will uphold their confidentiality.
I will acknowledge my patients’ physical, psychological, and social needs and assist them to make informed decisions that reflect their own values and beliefs.
I will respect, support and give gratitude to my teachers, colleagues and all those who sustain the NHS.
I will reflect on my practice and recognise my limits.
I will seek to increase my understanding and skills, and promote the advancement of medicine as both a teacher and a learner.
I will work towards a fairer distribution of health resources and oppose policies in breach of human rights.
I will look after my own physical, mental and emotional well-being in my personal and professional life.
I shall never intentionally cause harm to my patients, and will have the utmost respect for human life.
I will practice medicine with integrity, humility, honesty and compassion.
I recognise that the practice of medicine is a privilege with which comes considerable responsibility and I will not abuse my position.
I make this declaration sincerely, freely and upon my honour.

Not to mention the vast majority of doctors do not actually take the oath.

I can see you’ve obviously never ran your own business. Your comment has really pissed me off. A small business doesn’t have an army of delivery vans bring their produce or an army of staff to pack it and unload it. No, they are up around 5am they then go to cash and carry etc they unload it all themselves and stack the shelves. By 4.30 they will have probably been up 11/12 hours already. When they shut the door they then have to check the stock and clean, they then probably go to a different cash and carry because they don’t always have what they want under one roof. Then they will bring the stuff back to stock up. They might get in by 7.30 to get ready to go to bed to be up by five again. It’s also 7 days a week when you run your own business. Jesus some people. You have no idea.

Maybe customers try to understand the pressure a small business is under to just stay afloat. My electric bill in my small tea shop is now £900 a month then 20% vat 20% corporation tax and the minimum wage is going up. I also work seven days a week sometimes I’m up at 4.30am and not home until 7.00pm. But then again I’ll doubt you’ll understand as I’m pretty sure you will never own your own business.

Plenty of people have an idea. It is not just about having a small army of staff to pack and unload it. And working 11-12 hours. That is not what makes a business successful.

No business can be successful unless it is giving customers what they want and adapting to their needs. No it does not have to be 100% but enough to keep customers returning.

This is exactly the kind of patronising attitude that keeps people away. As much as I want to shop local, I am not going to book time off work just to go to the local greengrocers who packs up at 3.45. I will go to the other greengrocer who stays open late a couple of evenings a week. And yes I do have a business myself by the way.

The vast majority of posters are complaining about opening hours, wanting businesses to open earlier, close later, not have lunch hours, open Sundays, etc. Business owners have tried to explain the realities of why that's not possible, i.e. all the behind the scenes stuff that has to happen, other commitments, difficulties in getting/affording staffing, etc etc.

How does understanding improve accessibility though in reality?

There are doable options as many pointed out. Including us business owners.

Frankly it all comes to things like if cafe by train station moans about people not supporting them, but they do not open early to actually catch the commuters (and may close early instead) then they should really think hard about running this. And similar examples like extra service etc.
People should know what business is like and if they go into it, no one owes them anything because they devided to leave employment and pursue business and end up doing 12 hour shifts.

Yes they have explained the reasons for their businesses and that is valid.

If those decisions result in less takings then one has to accept that instead of businesses threatening they are going to close down if not used and then not opening at peak times or being rude to customers etc.

The electricity bill is ridiculous, but you don't pay VAT, your customers do, and you should absolutely pay tax on your profits. And you should also pay a decent wage.

Businesses that can't afford to pay a decent wage should not be in business.

I totally agree with you. There is a small clothes shop in the area where my office is. This area is white collar 100%. We all start going out for lunch at 2.00, so she closes her shop at 2.00. We all window shop, because it is impossible for us to be a customer as she works the same hours as us and doesnt open in the afternoon to catch people leaving the office. I buy most of my stuff online now. Not sure how long she will be afloat.
I went to a hairdressers and they were offering beauty services, morning only. When I pointed out that this area is full of office workers, who are working in the morning, she said the lady only wanted to work mornings. that is very well, but when your customer base also works mornings, can´t you start to preview the problem? They ditched the service not long after. Weird isnt it?

What do you mean by a decent wage? Do you mean Minimum wage?

People seem to want you to adapt to their needs so that you're there for them at, say six o'clock, for that once every six months when they decide they need something

I do get this. People do say one thing and do another. When I worked in a library, we had about 5 people through the door on the "late night" (5-7pm) opening. The fact that the library was open that late was intensely valuable to those people but it obviously didn't make economic sense to have the place open and staffed for so few people. People said they wanted it to be open that late, but didn't come.

On the other side of the coin, if you don't have sensible and reliable opening hours people won't come because they come and you are not open. That has also been something library services have discovered - they cut opening hours to save money and lose more and more custom because people can't work out when they are open.

What do you mean by a decent wage? Do you mean Minimum wage

Yes. I realise there's an argument to be had about whether the minimum wage is "decent". My point is that a business who moans every time the minimum wage goes up is either tight-fisted and likes exploiting people, or doesn't have a viable business. Or both.

Businesses are obliged to pay minimum wage. If they moan about it that's neither here nor there.

@Badbadbunny thats a (bloody) good reason. I honestly would never have thought of that, it’s actually very clever now I’ve thought about it. Every day really is a school day!

Exactly. I said this upthread but you've put it far more succinctly.

I also think the 'that's why you'll never own your own business' comment exemplifies the attitude a few people have that having one puts them somehow above the common herd- which then clashes strongly with the fact that actually any business is entirely dependant on doing what customers want them to do.

If you can't provide what customers want, whatever the perfectly understandable limitations you have, you can't run a business. If you have to do childcare, can't work during peak times, want every weekend off- you can't run a customer facing business.