That some small businesses are failing because they don’t adapt to the needs of their customers?

[Isawyou]

I try to shop local. Fortunately I do have some great independent places nearby.

What I am finding frustrating is for example the fruit and veg shop closes at 4.30pm. They start packing up at 3.45pm and it is really difficult to buy things from there where they are stacking all the stands with the produce inside. They also look unhappy at customers coming to buy at packing up time. It is easier to go to the Tesco express that stays open until midnight.

Other shops do not open until 10am and close early. So I can’t get there before work or after work.

They complain their businesses are not doing well and people do not shop local but they are not exactly facilitating it for the customers either.

They still are operating as though everyone has a homemaker free to shop by day.

The proprietors near me spend half their days gossiping and act affronted if interrupted. Let their businesses fail, as far as I'm concerned.

Yes I don't know why they don't close a day in the week and stay open later or sat/Sun. Maybe it's things like you can't get staff because of childcare etc.

We have a wool shop, but you aren’t allowed to browse the wool or touch it. You must stand one at a time at the counter and ask for the wool you want - you aren’t allowed to touch it, must be paid for first… but you can ask you wipeable items to be brought up on the counter to touch such as knitting needles. only open 10-2 on days only the owner knows. Due to covid.

Never seen anyone shop there!

No, I work Monday to Friday all day. Like most of the population.

And the last thing I wanna do is rush out of the house with my kids cos DH is in work on Saturdays to do the shop. When I can have it delivered to my home at a time that suits me by another company. Or Asda is open until midnight.

They probably open late/close early because the additional costs of doing business outside those hours isn't with it for the amount they would take. Maybe they would have to employ extra staff to work those hours and the takings wouldn't cover the wages and the electricity.

I really wanted to buy some wool on Tuesday as i have recently becone obsessed with crochet. I have a small independent knitting/wool shop 10mins away from me, perfect I thought. I finished work at 4 and got there in 15 mins only to find that they close at 3 every day. Nevermind I thought, I'm off work tomorrow so will go then, nope closed on Wednesdays. Also closed on weekends. I ordered online from somewhere else instead.

This happens all of the time in my town. There are not many shops as is(3/4s of the town is hairdressers/beauty salons and coffee shops) so I do try and support them but between them being closed for lunch and closing early it just makes it really awkward and I end up wasting my time even trying.

I agree.
I went to a local florist recently and she gave me a bit of a telling off when I asked to pay by card.
She told me the visa bills are high for businesses and begrudgingly handed over the card machine.

Nowhere in the shop did it say that they would prefer cash and I understand that visa charges can be ridiculous but her attitude was really shitty.

The flowers were beautiful but I won't be shopping there again in a hurry.

People wouldn't need haranguing into 'shopping local' if shopping local wasn't generally worse (more expensive, less convenient) than the alternatives.

The retail landscape has totally changed but so many people still want to visit a physical shop, not buy blind online. Mon-Fr 9-5 really doesn't work well these days so why not go to Sat-Sun 9-5 and all day with late night opening Thurs (which used to be a thing). The rest of the time, your premises are a base for your online sales?

I went to a local cafe yesterday and asked what time they closed and they said 3pm. Bonkers especially in half term week.

@MarieKlepto exactly! Our local cheese shop (sells other food too) has done this type of thing. They open late three nights a week and open at 8am Monday-Friday to catch the school crowd and office staff. They’ve taken to being closed on Sundays and instead offer a delivery service 12-4pm (and take card payment at your doorstop!!!) and I think it’s half day opening Saturday now. It always has people in and does a roaring online trade via Facebook and just eats.
Simply lovely people who deserve to become a massive success and are very willing to do whatever makes it easier for customers to access them. Food is fantastic too.

There was a really nice little cafe opened up near our school a few years ago. It seemed like a really welcome addition because there are no other cafes in the vicinity. It didn't open until 10am so it missed the school run crew in the morning, which always seemed odd to me but it turned out the owner had her own kids and wanted to be able to drop them off, have a bit of time to get sorted and then open the shop. Which is fine, but that area had fairly low footfall except at school run times so the business never really took off and eventually closed down. The owner tried to sell the business as a going concern, but did an interview with the local paper talking about how difficult it had been to make the business profitable so she clearly had next to no business nous, because who is going to buy it after reading that?!

I think the issue with small independent F&V businesses is that they get up at the crack of dawn to hit the markets for fresh produce. I know my local one opens around 6am but closes at 3.

However they do deliver which suits me!

*No, I work Monday to Friday all day. Like most of the population.

And the last thing I wanna do is rush out of the house with my kids cos DH is in work on Saturdays to do the shop. When I can have it delivered to my home at a time that suits me by another company. Or Asda is open until midnight.*

Yes I get that but small local independent business are not going to be able to operate like a big business chain. Most of them cannot afford to pay enough staff to cover all the hours people want , alongside business rates, electricity bills, insurance and so on.
We have a fantastic local greengrocer, but he is up at the crack of dawn to go to the local fruit Market. By 5pm he has already worked a 12 or 13 hour day. He does this 6 days a week, yes he employs a few people but it isn't possible to employ someone to cover much later hours and still make enough money to support his own family

Cafe Nero are a massive chain. They can afford to do the extra hour as a loss leader in the hope it’ll put the smaller cafe’s out of business.

So few people on this thread have the vaguest concept of business costs.

Fruit and veg shop if it stays open another hour will probably have to employ extra staff, to gain maybe one of two customers. The cost might not be justifiable.

If more shops stayed open later people would get into the habit of going into town and city centres after work to go shopping, meet friends, have a coffee, their hair done etc. It can't be just a couple of shops, they all need to do it. Unfortunately a lot of shop owners and workers are stuck in their ways and don't like change. I always remember going to a shop while on holiday and there being a sign saying something like "Please note that we do NOT sell batteries!" It's that kind of mentality that a lot of shop owners seem to have.

Agree that some businesses are missing a trick by not thinking about the routines of their target customers. Eg like a pp we had a local cafe that only opened from mid morning onwards and so completely missed out on the going to work/dropping at school crowd which is basically all you'd get in an out of centre location. Unsurprisingly it didn't last long.

We also now have a few in town that expressly say what type of customers they want eg that don't allow children, or that make a big fuss about catering for dog owners. Even for a person within whatever demographic they're banging on about, surely someone saying they want to pick and choose who they take money from is a bit alienating. I don't want to have to stress about whether I'm 'in the gang' as I'm ordering my muffin fgs.

On the late night thing I understand that costs are high if you're open all day and then late into the evening but actually unlike a cafe surely if it's a neighbourhood shop it would make more sense to be open from 11.30 onwards (to catch the homeworking crowd getting a few bits in their lunch break) and close at say 7.30 so you get people on their way home from work needing stuff for dinner plus again homeworkers stretching their legs at finish time who CBA to go to the supermarket. We have a few international type stores who stock UK staples as well as things like eg polish dumplings or frozen wontons that have these hours and they're always busy.

Shop local just means 'pay more' very often, ime.

I have no desire to go and pay double for my fruit and veg in our village shop than I could pay for it in a supermarket. The quality is much the same.

And controversial as it may be, I feel no loyalty or obligation to the shop owner (who incidentally doesn't even live locally themselves anyway) and no desire to inconvenience myself by shopping only during the hours they choose to work.

The business owners screaming and demanding we 'shop local' and 'support local businesses' get on my tits to be honest. We don't owe you a living. If you want our custom, provide better options/service/prices than your competition. If you can't, that's too bad, but that's a you problem 🤷🏻‍♀️

@PinkPantherPaws I guess it depends where you live.

I’m fairly remote and the F&V I get delivered is from local farms and is far, far superior to any supermarket chain. You can both see and taste the difference. So much so ghat my boys complain when I forget to order a delivery and pick up products from the shops!

There used to be a business like this where I lived. They were staffed by mental patients. They would deliver bins of cat litter or cat or dog food to your door.

I loved it because I had no car, and taking cat litter home added a lot of weight to my groceries. It was very popular.

Well most small businesses are run by one person or maybe have one or two part-time staff. They can't open the same hours as Tesco and have any kind of life. Nor can they get the same bulk discounts or stock the variety that Tesco can.

Independent shops are never going to be able to "adapt" in the way chains can. If you want them to stay you need to accept less convenience and more expense.

Our GP surgery has recently started doing Saturday appointments, I was very surprised!

I work from home a lot. But I’m not allowed to work from cafes because data protection / insecure connections etc. am I the only one??

I don't go to a cafe to work though. I go as a way of forcing myself to stop working, when working from home. Not every day. But on the days I do, I get loads more done in the afternoon.

I was going to say yabu, but actually on reflection I think yanbu.

Most of Europe has this right. Why are we so weird about it?

Why does everything shut the moment the vast majority are actually available to shop and likely walking past their windows. Bizarre!

If we must insist shops can’t open after 5 on a weekday then why can’t we sort the Sunday trading laws so there’s a proper day there.