To have said this at the riding school?

[TigeToo]

I’ve been doing horse riding lessons for around 6 months now (after on and off lessons when I was younger). I was paired up with a lovely but very sedate cob called Frank. It’s a mission to get Frank to do anything other than a very slow half hearted trot. It was ok at first as I needed a slow steady horse to build my confidence up but now it’s just frustrating. I’m meant to be learning how to canter but I can’t get Frank to canter. The instructor shouts “give him a kick” which I do but he doesn’t give a shit. The instructor will then laugh and call him a lazy bones or something. Occasionally she’ll run up behind him doing a weird noise which might make him canter for 3 steps but then he’ll stop again.
Last week I arrived at the stables and was told “Frank isn’t available so I’ve got Toby out for you, he’s a bit more forward, are you ok with that?”

Well Toby was amazing! Still slow and steady but up for a slow canter when requested. He was perfect!! I had an amazing lesson and finally felt like I was getting somewhere (with lots of cantering!!)

At the end of the lesson I asked if I could have Toby again on my next lesson. She said that was fine and wrote his name next to mine in the booking book.

So imagine my horror when I turn up today and see Frank stood waiting for me. I said “I’m meant to be on Toby today” and she said “oh, sorry he’s not available this week”. So I said “As lovely as Frank is I really want to learn to canter now, is there any other horse available?” And she got pissed off and said “no, I’ve got Frank ready now”.

So I took Frank into the school. Absolutely pointless, walking around so slow that he literally stopped a few times. Managed a slow trot, no chance I was getting anything else out of him.

So when it came to booking next weeks lesson I said “can you put me down for a horse I can learn to canter with” and she said “I can try but Frank is the best horse for you really due to your height, weight and ability” (I’m 5ft 10in, 10.7stone). They have a massive yard full of horses. I have another friend who goes and has said she won’t ride Frank or Toby as they’re too difficult to work with.

I didn’t book at the time but after speaking to friend I rang them just now and asked if I could book in with Blaze, Pepsi or Toby next week. They said “yes, I’ll put them on as well as Frank”. I said “No, not Frank”. She got very defensive and said there were no guarantees that it won’t be Frank if he’s the only one available so I said I won’t bother then.

The lessons are expensive and I feel like the’re taking the piss out of me.

Doesn't sound like a good riding school to be honest.

Frank is very much a beginners horse, which is great but they should know their own horses well enough to know when someone needs progressing on from him.

I want to be as good a rider as the people on this thread who, once they have learnt to ride properly, can get any horse to do what they want! Sadly for me, I am still at the stage of having lessons as often as I can, in order to better my riding. I’ve represented my country in my discipline, won an international competition on a hired horse (who was one of the most stubborn horses I’ve ever ridden, she’d have had a nod and a wink with Frank!) and also a national championship on a horse I’d only sat on twice prior to the competition, and I still don’t think I am yet at a stage where I can get any horse to do what I want. I can have a good stab at it, and generally get a reasonable result, but I am also aware of my limitations. There is no rider more clueless than the one who thinks they know it all.

As for Frank, bless him he is probably a lovely chap if stationary is what you want, but exhausting to learn to go forward on. One of the great advantages of learning in a riding school is that you get to experience a variety of different horses, all of whom have their own personalities and foibles. If you are not getting this variety, I would be asking for it, telling the riding school you would like to build some experience of different horses.

However, I would agree with all those who have recommended a different riding school. It would seem this one is not working for you, and I would have reservations about any instructor who’s teaching methodology involved putting you on a semi-comatose horse and shouting that you ‘give it a kick.’ It might, if you apply enough effort, get a few strides of canter out of a reluctant Frank in that moment, but it will not equip you with the skills to go on and ride other, probably more sensitive horses, correctly. I’ve seen far too many riding school riders who think they have learnt how to ride get on a privately owned horse and suddenly realise they know very little indeed. Frank, and this instructor, are doing the OP no favours at all here unfortunately.

She is learning to ride?

That’s why she’s there having lessons.

How are people expected to be able to make a horse canter, if they haven’t learnt how to do it?

Yep, there's learning to ask for a canter and getting it, and having to flap your legs like a demented banshee to get a bit of a faster shuffle. Only one is useful, really.

I've had horses for years and been around many stables with my children, and I'm willing to bet even Pippa Funnell woudn't be able to get some of the laziest cobs going.

Ahh, learning to ride on a Frank. Then moving to another part of the country, finding another school, getting onto a slightly more spirited horse, giving it the sort of kick one needed to give to Frank and finding oneself halfway to London.

Yup, takes me back…

You've been having lessons for 6 months and only getting to canter now????? Hell no they are taking your hard earned cash and you are not getting any benefit from that at all. If I were you, take a look elsewhere. They are taking the absolute piss. Good luck!!

I think Frank needs to earn his keep and all the new customers get lumbered with him till they dig their heels in. Frank needs put out to pasture.

I'd tell them that while he was good for getting your confidence back you need a bigger challenge now.

There's lazy horses and completely switched off riding school horses (you can usually tell these by the instructor settling on classics such as "leg leg leg" "kick kick kick" and I remember one instructor from my childhood who would shout "beat that pony, make it go!" (no, no thank you).

Frank could be either, but if he was lazy then in a private adult lesson I would expect a decent BHS qualified instructor to do one of two things, either pop OP on the lunge without stirrups and reins for a few lessons, build that feel and show that it's HOW she's asking OR get on herself and demonstrate in case there's something lost in translation with her teaching. Let's be honest - if Frank is just lazy then a decent instructor would have taught OP how he needs to be ridden by now if they have had the luxury of an adult beginner in a private lesson!

OP, I'd ask for local recommendations for riding schools in real life or social media which are good for adult beginners. Visit, watch a bit of lessons and talk to the manager about your current frustrations. There's an instructor somewhere for you with access to horses who can teach you - it's a hobby and an expensive one at that so you should enjoy it and feel that you are making progress.

The beauty of a good riding school is that you learn "feel" and how to ride different types of horse. I can ride a lazy horse and get the results I want, I have been privileged enough to ride other people's beautifully schooled dressage horses who make me look good but I don't enjoy anything as much as I enjoy riding a green inexperienced horse and teaching them. There is definitely someone out there who can help you lay the foundations that make it possible to ride a genuinely lazy or nappy horse and maybe not enjoy it but gain satisfaction from being able to achieve it. It really doesn't sound like you are learning anything at the moment, just logging hours in the saddle.

She can't ride though, that's the point surely? How is OP supposed to learn to canter when she's spending all her time getting after Frank? She needs a horse that is willing to canter, so that she can concentrate on her own seat and aids.

OP - yanbu. I went fir a few lessons after losing my confidence a bit with one of my horses. He's unpredictable and flighty, with no sense of self preservation at all . My other (very forward but safe) horse was out if action. So I decided a few lessons would help, just to have a few uneventful rides. It wasbloody awful. I also got a Frank, it wasn't an enjoyable experience at all. He was totally dead to the leg, and was going nowhere fast. Completely pointless exercise snd waste of money.

Matilda1981
To be honest if you could ride you would be able to get Frank to canter so I’m on the side of the riding school here!!

Not sure that’s true. When I was learning to ride my horse kept refusing to jump. The instructor’s whole demeanour indicated she thought it was my fault. Eventually she got on him. He refused, reared and she came off. I couldn’t help but feel a little bit smug. (She was fine).

Thanks everyone. I just want to add that I love Frank, he’s got a beautiful character and if I could have him as a cuddle pet I would. I really need to learn to ride though.

Someone mentioned about spending time with him in his stable, I did that, I asked them to teach me how to saddle up etc, he sticks his belly out when doing up the saddle so you can’t pull it tight 😂

@TigeToo have you tried flat out bribery - apples or grapes (weirdly enough) my rocky was a old fella but my god when he knew I had them in my pocket he flew.

Honestly though op change schools I personally think they are taking you for a v slow ride (pun intended kinda)

It was me who mentioned making the most of any other time with him (or any horse you are planning to ride), by if possible getting the time to tack up and tack his tack off, and brush off (hopefully) after the lesson. I can think of nothing worse than arriving to a fully readied horse, who I would then get on, as though it were a machine, and then hand over afterwards.
I do understand that plenty of Riding Schools might do this - and have been around some, and some livery yards. It just expedites things more easily, but it not a holistic approach, which I would hope most people who want to ride horses would look for.
If you had some lessons as a youngster, I would have thought you might have got some hands-on then. Stable management knowledge is so valuable.
Blowing their tummies out is a well-known trick. Just need to not aim for full tightness at the start, and make sure you check and tighten before getting on.

I also wondered if Frank likes hacking? If you fancy trying this it’s your hour and your money so maybe ask for a walk trot hack?
A lot of riding school horses are much happier on a hack!

But my advice would still be to talk to the owner, and if no success to try another school (if you can find one)

This "I am the customer and I shall have what I want!" Can be dangerous around horses if you actually get what you want and can't handle it, horses don't know about paying for services and getting your money's worth - they react in the moment to what the rider is doing and the environment, and they'll all react differently from each other, and even from the last time in the same situation.

I've seen so many people over horse themselves because they thought they were more competent than they are, wouldn't listen to advice and then make a very expensive and dangerous mistake.

Being bored on a Frank can turn into terrified on a more forward horse, they have a different attitude and they are usually more sensitive, crash land in the saddle as you're learning to canter and lose your balance and you might find yourself bucked off, that bird flying out that Frank wouldn't even notice could elicit a sideways at speed spook from the more forward horse, a loss of balance and leaning into the reins can cause a more forward horse to start flinging it's head around.

We all have to learn to deal with that, but a strong seat and secure legs and upper body give you the best chance, and unfortunately that means a lot of trotting in circles and work without stirrups, poles and transitions. It's boring, really boring but gives you the best foundation for moving onto more forward horses.

Assuming a lesson a week for an hour, for six months, that's what 24 hours? Not a lot in the grand scheme of things to be honest where riding is concerned, I really believe you never stop learning with horses and that every horse has something to teach you if you're willing to listen. And for some people riding is a huge leap forward one week and then weeks of fine tuning and feeling you're going nowhere, but you are.

All that said, I don't actually think you're being that unreasonable, not least because the instructor is telling you to kick. You shouldn't need to kick, some horses need firmer pressure to get a response, but all kicking does is eventually switch them off, not to mention is also unfair and likely painful, and from your description it sounds like Frank is already there, and I agree with others that you won't learn on a horse that's in that frame of mind. Horses take the path of least resistance and for some riding school horses that are ridden over and over again by novice's with wobbly positions, that's often ignoring everything.
Moving onto a more forward horse will bring it's own set of issues, ones you need to be prepared to deal with, and could end with you on the floor as you learn to do that, it's a lazy, but safe form of instruction the way you are being taught on Frank.
As a kid I was put on horses that really, looking back, I couldn't handle and I learned the hard way! And it included a lot of eating dirt, a lot! And did the horses no favours either. That's just not acceptable these days liability wise, and yes, that often leads to riders being held back and getting frustrated with not moving forward, but it's a big risk to put someone who is 'un tested' on a horse who is forward and a bit livelier than they are used to.

I feel sorry for Frank. Some horses respond to less balanced riders by slowing down. My old pony went on loan to a riding school and behaved like a plod with some of the clients. You needed to lighten your seat bones into canter and it was nothing to do with kicking (yes sorry this is a really poor explanation, I would be a terrible riding instructor, but so is the one that just says kick kick give him a smack).
Traditionally classical riders (think Spanish riding school, Cadre Noir) learnt to ride on the lunge, and didn't come off the lunge until they could remain in balance with the horse at all paces. How can you possibly be expected to get the horse into canter when you haven't yet learnt to sit the canter or properly sit the trot, the horse is probably running out of balance... better that the instructor takes charge of the horse, gets a nice balanced trot and canter which will be much easier for you to sit to, and you can focus on your position and balance.
If your current place can't offer that I'd definitely look elsewhere.
And if Frank is sound he should canter, but you're not there yet. No reason why the instructor shouldn't put him on the lunge and do it for you though. I'd be shocked if he wouldn't pop into canter nicely for her because she rides better than you, and one day he will do it nicely for you, but you're learning, so he's telling you he's not quite ready to do it for you yet. Good luck xx

😆😂classic horsey trick with the girth strap.
Frank sounds like he’s on the ball.

Maybe bribery could work….

Some horses just won't
My old horse competed to advanced medium and one day she was having a day of it and flatly refused to move. Nothing anyone did or said was going to make her budge. If she decided one day she wasn't going to canter then nothing would have changed her mind

Generally lazy horses need less leg and hot horses need more but one like Frank would need a dedicated one on one ride to start enforcing that. The idea is you set the speed and gait and the horse stays in that until you say change

So on a lazy horse I would be asking once, and if once didn't work then yes I would be using a whip behind my leg, pony club kick, or whatever to get go. Repeat transition with asking once again
Then stay in canter but no leg nagging. If they drop out of canter, ask once. And loads and loads of direct transitions. You eventually think canter and they go

Oh no doubt Frank has seen and done it all.

I know a lot about horses and you have to give the lazy and slow horses to beginners or else they would fall off. So every riding school will have them. However, you will learn nothing if you stay at this riding school - can't you go somewhere else? If ever you ride a horse than has only been ridden by people that know what they are doing you will be amazed at how responsive they are because if you just tighten your calf or move one calf slightly back they with go forward into a canter ( you ask them to lead with a given leg if you keep one leg on the girth and one leg behind the girth).

I did a return to riding course at a local stables. There was a Frank, there always is and always should be. I remember one particular lesson where Frank would not listen to a single thing I thought I was telling him and I got all uppity due to being a frustrated sleep deprived parent, and blamed him. The instructor asked me to walk to the middle of the school and dismount. She jumped on and put him through his paces round the school, with her describing what she was doing as she went round, it was me not him that was the problem
Actually watching her from the ground was good though as I could see what I was meant to be doing rather than just trying to envisage it my head.

I completely agree with this. You may not be as ready to canter as you think. Frank will have learned at bit of self preservation- he's probably had a lot of people bumping about in canter , hanging on to the reins and has no desire for that.

Can you ask for some lunge lessons? On any horse - even a sharper one is fine in this instance as the instructor has control.

Could you describe a typical lesson? What are you currently being taught/learning? To get an active canter on anything you need to have done a lot of work on getting good transitions. Maybe a lesson of nothing but transitions would wake Frank up more than all the kicking in the world.

And correctly used a whip is an aid. Better than forever kicking As described, ask with your calf, if no response stronger, if no response tap with whip and go and back down a pace then up and repeat including transitions with the pace.

You might find you can get even Frank forward.

With our riding school ‘frank’ he’s dead to the world with kicks, but the gentlest touch with the whip to the shoulders tells him everything. He’s learnt to ignore kicks, but just light taps or pressure, just touching with the whip is as good as spoken conversation.
Many riding school ponies develop quirks, I think there needs to be a chat. We have another that only does voice commands near us. Kick her and you’re not even gonna stay in the school. Another is trained highly, but ignores beginners. However occasionally the right combination from a beginner has her side stepping across the drive way

Good riding schools make sure their horses and ponies are schooled properly between teaching, so that they are able to respond to proper leg and hand aids. It's not good riding to be constantly kicking, they shouldn't be teaching that. Good schools teach that whips are for subtle reinforcement of other aids, not hitting...

Totally agree with this. For my two cents worth the exercises to get a horse to go are the same as the ones to get a horse to slow. Transitions between gaits and within gait. The aim is to use the lightest aid possible to get a response.

As a beginner rider I'd hazard a guess you are still quite unbalanced. Cantering while unbalanced isn't a great idea. The horse just needs to stumble and you'll be off.

I've always been more about understanding how to train my horse. Getting a range of exercises to develop their strength and capabilities. A good hack and hoon is fun too, but knowing exercises to get the outcome you want enable you to ride a variety of horses well.

I suppose that's my question about where you are riding. Do your lessons teach you what and why you are doing something or are they kick to go and haul to stop with no finesse / escalation? If it's the latter then it's really not good riding - for you or the horse.

I'll leave you with something to think about. A horse doesn't go because you kick. It goes because you stop kicking.

I'll leave you with something to think about. A horse doesn't go because you kick. It goes because you stop kicking.

I know exactly what you mean but no, this is not the case for the Franks of this world. They have a deeper, weary common sense that knows the kicking won't go on for long if they resist, so they get to the release stage via that route.