To have said this at the riding school?

[TigeToo]

I’ve been doing horse riding lessons for around 6 months now (after on and off lessons when I was younger). I was paired up with a lovely but very sedate cob called Frank. It’s a mission to get Frank to do anything other than a very slow half hearted trot. It was ok at first as I needed a slow steady horse to build my confidence up but now it’s just frustrating. I’m meant to be learning how to canter but I can’t get Frank to canter. The instructor shouts “give him a kick” which I do but he doesn’t give a shit. The instructor will then laugh and call him a lazy bones or something. Occasionally she’ll run up behind him doing a weird noise which might make him canter for 3 steps but then he’ll stop again.
Last week I arrived at the stables and was told “Frank isn’t available so I’ve got Toby out for you, he’s a bit more forward, are you ok with that?”

Well Toby was amazing! Still slow and steady but up for a slow canter when requested. He was perfect!! I had an amazing lesson and finally felt like I was getting somewhere (with lots of cantering!!)

At the end of the lesson I asked if I could have Toby again on my next lesson. She said that was fine and wrote his name next to mine in the booking book.

So imagine my horror when I turn up today and see Frank stood waiting for me. I said “I’m meant to be on Toby today” and she said “oh, sorry he’s not available this week”. So I said “As lovely as Frank is I really want to learn to canter now, is there any other horse available?” And she got pissed off and said “no, I’ve got Frank ready now”.

So I took Frank into the school. Absolutely pointless, walking around so slow that he literally stopped a few times. Managed a slow trot, no chance I was getting anything else out of him.

So when it came to booking next weeks lesson I said “can you put me down for a horse I can learn to canter with” and she said “I can try but Frank is the best horse for you really due to your height, weight and ability” (I’m 5ft 10in, 10.7stone). They have a massive yard full of horses. I have another friend who goes and has said she won’t ride Frank or Toby as they’re too difficult to work with.

I didn’t book at the time but after speaking to friend I rang them just now and asked if I could book in with Blaze, Pepsi or Toby next week. They said “yes, I’ll put them on as well as Frank”. I said “No, not Frank”. She got very defensive and said there were no guarantees that it won’t be Frank if he’s the only one available so I said I won’t bother then.

The lessons are expensive and I feel like the’re taking the piss out of me.

I've ridden all over the world for many many years, from training young horses to helping people out with ex riding school horses. I remember one wonderful riding school arab pony, who was tense, resistant and wouldn't go forwards. I had an hours lesson and barely used my legs. He was a whizzy little pocket rocket at the end, even bursting into canter with a little buck because he was just so happy someone had allowed his body to be soft as they sat still and let him work himself out, whilst giving consistent yet very subtle aids. I wanted to take him home so much at the end of that. Poor Frank is utterly disillusioned and confused.

Specify you are not riding Frank which you have done.

Be clear you want to ride the other horses.

Ring ahead to check which the horse they are getting ready that morning.

If it's Frank just say you don't ride Frank and you'll leave it this week until they have the right horse available.

Don't turn up if it's Frank. They will either accommodate or ask you to find another stable.

They can put you on another horse. But Frank is available and if they can fob you off on Frank then they make extra money because everyone else is saying the same. Shout loudest!

Just be clear and call ahead every time.

We need to see a photo of Frank!

A lot of people "loan" horses at a big stable, so they pay £150 a month to loan Toby and get to ride him. The stables usually only allow a certain amount of time per day for horses wellbeing so Toby probably been ridden by his loan owner.
Very frustrating when you are paying for private lessons at top whack and get Frank everytime.
My friend had this issue and now loans a more forward horse so she can jump a little bit and improve.

I had this in reverse OP.
I was regularly riding the most forward TB cross. He taught me a lot about getting him to slow rather than bombing, dealing with spooks, we were jumping high and we were working on getting him to slow and approach jumps properly rather than bombing too early or running out.
I had to take some time out due to breaking my ankle over a jump but when I went back it wasn’t the same. I got stuck on an old dependable which was good to get back into things but it never progressed back to anything else so I stopped going.

Ponies like this were known as "An Armchair" when I was riding ( or from meaner peple "A Plodder" )
Now they;ll all be called "a Frank"

I have no clue about horses (indeed I'm terrified of them - and more terrified of horsey people... I was chased by some girls from the local riding school out and about on horses as a kid and it's stayed with me) but I have to say that I am quite firmly in Team Frank here. He sounds like just how I would be if someone turned me into a horse.

The riding school are taking the piss. Frank should be reserved solely for absolute beginners or leading rein. They should not be instructing riders to 'give him a good kick'. It makes me sick.
This happened to me when I wanted some lessons to regain my confidence. I could already ride so I knew damn well I shouldn't be kicking the poor thing in the ribs like the arsehole instructor was telling me. I'm sorry but some of these 'horsey' types are just cunts and couldn't give a shit about the horses.

Can i just say I'm sorry that happened to you and I totally get how that would put you off entirely.

As a horsey person I hope not all of us are Cnuts but I'm well aware there's a hell of a lot of them and it can be incredibly horsey bitchy world to join. I do it because I love horses but the people who sometimes work them are not great people.

Anyway I don't know if this will help or not but just to say I'm really bloody sorry. And I'm also a frank in spirit too 💐

Good riding schools make sure their horses and ponies are schooled properly between teaching, so that they are able to respond to proper leg and hand aids. It's not good riding to be constantly kicking, they shouldn't be teaching that. Good schools teach that whips are for subtle reinforcement of other aids, not hitting...

I completely agree. OP, your riding school sounds a lot like the one I rode at when I was little - horses that were perfectly alright for a beginner or a nervous rider but absolutely no good for those progressing. You can't learn to ride a pace if the horse won't do it, or if you're kicking and flapping to try and get them to stay in the pace once you're there. A Pony Club Kick has its place ("Fucking MOVE, there's a car coming!") but it's not the sort of riding you should aim for, in fact it should look effortless, like ballet.

There is always a benefit to riding a horse that knows how to do something without too much input from the rider, it's one of the ways to learn what you're aiming for. I rode my trainer's horse recently to learn piaffe and so I benefited from the work she'd already done with him. I can then take that "knowledge of feeling" away with me to my horse, in a similar way to how riding schools - good ones - should teach on the lunge where the instructor is giving (or at least contributing) to the signals and horses should be doing what the rider asks.

I would change schools.

I ride, and due to height/weight and horse working hours, I end up riding a few Franks. But I know, that the fault is 50% mine, because I have seen other people riding 'Frank' and he will canter, do leg yields etc. With me, it's so much more grudging because he knows I have weak legs, so cannot give a firm squeeze on the right spot, so I all have is nagging nudges (which is what my big kicks actually are) and other ignorable aids. For a while, I was put on a Toby and I did have a brilliant time, you only had to sit down a bit firmly and you found yourself cantering. I was cantering spirals in and out to 20m circles etc. I didn't actually learn anything, apart from, bloody hell a good forward horse is a good horse! I didn't actually improve my canter aids while I was riding him, though I did improve my ability to sit the canter.

Poor old Frank, I hate the “kick him harder” riding schools. At your weight they should have other suitable horses.

In a similar situation I took my money elsewhere. Last year for a few months I was able to ride a soft mouthed horse who was responsive to just the hint of a leg aid, and it was an absolute pleasure.

Just reread that you are paying for private lessons, I think in your shoes I'd go elsewhere, you need a good schoolmaster to learn on, and you shouldn't be being taught to kick, (which is a terrible habit to get into) and somewhere where the horses aren't stale or shut down. Good luck with your progress, I hope you find a decent school, and learn to ride in a kinder way than your current place is teaching. Above all it should be enjoyable!

TBH, you may find you have a similar experience at another school. You need to ensure you have a forward and active trot before you ask for the canter. Haven’t RTFT, but you don’t say whether you carry a whip? If not, you need to, preferably a long schooling whip. Ask once with your leg for him to move more forwards, if no response, instantly back up with the whip. No point continually sitting there flapping if he’s just ignoring your leg.

Learning to school a lazy horse will make you a better rider, but rule no 1, don’t nag with your leg. Short, sharp kick, if no response back up with the whip.

Really interesting all the posts mentioning "whips". When I learned to ride in the eighties we called it a "crop" or just a "stick". (I haven't ridden regularly for 20 odd years). Do people not use those words any more?

I use crop for the short ones, and whip for the longer 'dressage' style ones.

You're joking aren't you? Hand a beginner, just learning to canter, on a shut down, dead to the leg riding school horse, a long schooling whip? Do leave off

I've always used crop for a hunting crop, stick for a short showjumping sort and schooling/dressage whips. I'm 58, so may be old fashioned now!

I use "whip" as a generic phrase but a stick to mean a short jumping-style whip and a crop to mean a hunting whip. Everything else is a dressage whip!

A crop or stick was always the short ones and used for hacking out and jumping/cross country (anyone remember the ones with hands and butterflies on the end?) and a whip was just a shortened version of schooling whip used for schooling. Probably not suitable to be used until your hands are steady.

Lunge whips for lunging and shouldn't touch the
horse, and certainly not above the hock if it does.
I learned to lunge on a horse that was the expert, bring that whip even a cm past her hock and she'd go down a pace, sweep from behind towards her back end across the floor and she'd go up a pace. Get your hands in a fuddle and she'd stop and look at you like wtf? 🤣 but you could lunge her without the whip too, just on voice commands and body language. She taught me how to lunge properly and what I was looking for in response.

I'm 44 so learned to ride in the late 80's into the 90's.

Thanks for all the crop/whip terminology info! We just had a general purpose medium length one for riding school arena lessons, jumping, cross country and hacks. Mine was red and had a big chunk out of the covering in the middle where a horse had chewed it!

I'm feeling like the human version of Frank today, can barely move.

YANBU OP about the general point but I also feel very sorry for Frank. There's some great advice on here from riding experts about things you could work on even with a Frank, so I hope your lessons can become more rewarding, whatever the outcome.

On a sharp, green youngster, no? On a doddery old plod who’s completely dead to the leg, what exactly do you think she’s going to do with the whip? A long schooling whip will ensure she doesn’t have to take her hands off the reins to give him a smack, lessening the risk of her yanking at his gob.

I’ve decided to give up on the lessons guys, I’m not learning anything and I can’t afford to go to another school and end up on their Frank for another 6 months.

Maybe it’s me, I’m an animal lover and am very soft with animals, I can’t kick and whip etc

Im going to put the money into piano lessons instead. Maybe I’m too old for the horse stuff these days

The point I was making @Tartanchair01 is that it's not appropriate to give a beginner a whip, especially not for giving the poor old plod 'a smack'. The poor bloody animal needs pensioning off not battering round the ring by anyone!
OP you don't have to give up your dream-decent places do exist, you just need to keep trying. Good luck, you sound like you could make a decent, considerate rider